hi Mortlocke hows it going? I am sure you have seen the possible spoiler from Kaldheim that the Phyrexians are coming back. Vorinclex, Monsterous Raider has been apparently leaked... Could we have a whole new cycle of Praetors returning to invade the snowy peaks of Kaldheim

Hey Doombeard1984, yes i've seen the confirmed non-official spoiler that is the uh...previously mentioned card. I don't want to say it's name because long story short - I made a forums post about it and an admin locked the thread because the card wasn't an official spoiler. The verbiage used by the admin was as follows:

Per TappedOut's policy that there is to be no discussion of cards that have not been officially spoiled--in this case, the card was allegedly inadvertently spoiled because the printer accidently slipped it into Commander Legends. Pursuant to this policy, I am going to lock this thread--I will try to remember to reopen it if this gets spoiled as a real card (if I do not, just leave a note on my wall to remind me).

As for what do I think about the card? It's weaker than the original Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger but gears itself more toward an Infect playstyle as it doubles the "damage" output from infect creatures, and doubles every proliferation on the stack giving some insane value - doubling +1/+1 and fading counters as well. Additionally that which shall not be named becomes instantly lethal once it gains infect ala Tainted Strike. The added bonus of potentially denying opponents counters is also nice. Again, it's definitely not as disruptive and overall powerful as the original, but with it's more narrow focus can be really devastating under the right conditions. I definitely plan on getting a copy of said card when it's officially available for purchase. From my understanding it's one Preator "invader" per plane. It seems that Phyrexia has cast a very wide net and is carefully laying out it's plans. Papa Yawgmoth would be proud, I sure am! What're your thoughts on the card that shall not be named?

I think it has some possibilities in a super friends strategy as well as infect, but also just kinda works in a kind of hatebears/stax/control type style where you are stiffling your opponents. Think, he who shall not be mentioned, is 100% more of an in the 99

Doombeard1984, agreed. My plan initially was to replace the original Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger already in the deck with the new instance but upon second glance I don't think that move would be wise. Instead i'm going to replace Inexorable Tide. That card i've never felt was particularly strong, as the pay off always felt a bit minimal once it hit the board. For it to really become useful, I needed a full grip of cards, infect counters on players and/or permanents with counters already on the board in the first place.

The new unofficial card I plan on including functions somewhat similarly to Inexorable Tide, in the sense that it contributes to proliferation triggers - but it does so much more. Like I said before, it's an excellent target for Tainted Strike, increases the lethality of Infect overall, and increases the value of all counters on permanents I control. The only downside is that i'm increasing the average CMC of the deck. But that's my plan - what're your thoughts?

I think all things considered, the deck has a good mana ramp/rock package and the deck could probably soak up the additional average CMC. When put in relation to the pay off if what is being included and replaced (Inexorable Tide I think is a good card to replace), the upside way outweighs the increase in average cost in the deck

Doombeard1984, following the same tangent I have another question to ask - would Corrupted Conscience be a better candidate for replacement over Inexorable Tide? Or am I just overthinking? Tide does have more synergy with the unofficially spoiled card we've been discussing.

I personally don't like Corrupted Conscience as much. Whilst steal a creature and giving it infect is fun, it's just not as synergistic as an Inexorable Tide or the card which has been the subject of this discussion. Also, Corrupted Conscience is limited in its effect dependent on what is on the Battlefield. Its one of those cards that I could see myself pulling and thinking often "well, that doesn't help". Hope that makes sense

You also have to think about the timing of the game. Its very unlikely either Corrupted Conscience or Inexorable Tide is going to be cast within the first four or five turns. So those cards are likely to be cast mid-game. At that time for 5cmc, Corrupted Conscience is far more likely to be useful than Inexorable Tide.

Think of this way:

1. You cast Inexorable Tide for 5cmc and it does absolutely nothing that turn.

2. You cast Corrupted Conscience and you can eliminate a threat by stealing the most troublesome creature. Its has infect and you can swing with it that turn if you have a way to give haste.

Corrupted Conscience is also more synergistic than Inexorable Tide. Pertaining to the commander, Inexorable Tide is less synergistic because it doesn't give your commander anything to do. Corrupted Conscience can potentially give your opponents counters for your commander to proliferate.

I think either way, new Vorinclex (if it is real) makes more sense than either of these cards, and so much more value for only 1 more CMC

Thank you both AscendedLandfalls and Doombeard1984 for your discussion regarding Inexorable Tide and Corrupted Conscience. Personally I've had limited success with Corrupted Conscience. Most of the time i'd just use it on another players' commander. Inexorable Tide actually won me a game on the other hand - I was fortunate enough to have poison counters on all my opponents and Tide already on the field and a full grip of cards. I simply cast enough cards to secure the "W" at the critical moment. I'm definitely on the fence between which card to substitute out for the unofficially-spoiled-card-thatwontbenamed and will simply give each a try to see what works.

AscendedLandfalls, Doombeard1984, I think i'm going to cut both Inexorable Tide and Corrupted Conscience in favor of the new unofficially spoiled card and Dovin's Veto. Tide and Conscience were always very underwhelming cards in my opinion - only performing well in a handful of situations. I wish wizards printed something like " - instant - counter target non-creature spell, proliferate" - and have it praetor themed. Well, one can dream at least. For now, these are my planned changes. What do you all think?

Sounds good Mortlocke. I think they are a good choice for replacement

Wait for the new set to come out before making any official changes because there will probably more things to help infect besides the unofficial card.