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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Oldschool 93/94 | Legal |
| Pauper | Legal |
| Pauper Duel Commander | Legal |
| Pauper EDH | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Premodern | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Tiny Leaders | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
Pradesh Gypsies
Creature — Human Nomad
, : Target creature gets -2/-0 until end of turn.
MTG-DemonicTutor on Official missing/incorrect card/token thread
1 year ago
The card Pradesh Gypsies is depiction-banned by WotC but is still being shown on this site (compared to other depiction-banned cards). It seems that this card has just been missed..
Sproet on
Legacy Banlist
1 year ago
You forgot Crusade, Jihad, Invoke Prejudice, Pradesh Gypsies, Cleanse, Stone-Throwing Devils, and Imprison
DemonDragonJ on None
3 years ago
TheRealSpecialK, in the case of Jihad, I can understand your words, and there is also the fact that a fantasy world using real world terminology does not make sense. For that reason, I shall also accept the banning of Pradesh Gypsies, since the Roma people do not exist in a fictional world.
However, I shall stand by my assertion that Cleanse should not be banned, because the word "black" refers to philosophical alignment, not ethnicity.
Also, when people today use the word "crusade," they are more often than not using it as a general term for a zealous movement to achieve a certain goal, not in reference to the specific crusades that occurred during the 1000's to the 1200's, so I shall maintain that the card Crusade is not problematic, especially when Cathars' Crusade has not been banned.
dingusdingo on None
3 years ago
The thread that keeps on giving
Why does it matter if they're banned if you can use them for kitchen table?
Sanctioned events exist where these cards might see play, especially Invoke Prejudice. Mono blue commander decks love the card as a powerful hoser that gives lots of devotion. This ranged from local EDH night at your shop to Commandfest. The list of officially sanctioned cards is pretty important in a card game.
Your post is a logical fallacy based on anecdotal evidence. Well I never saw any racism after MLK died why are we protesting? It doesn't matter if you have personally seen the cards. If I have seen the cards, does that change the legitimacy of my argument for or against their banning? No, not at all. You should debate based on the merit of the cards themselves.
The bannings DO impact the game, and even though Crusade has a functional reprint, decks can now only run 1 copy of the effect instead of 2. I have covered this already, but if you need something more thorough I'm happy to write you a blog post.
Your defense of Confiscate and Disruptive Student could easily be appropriated to defend the banned cards. Invoke Prejudice just shows a scene from Magic's in game history :^) Pradesh Gypsies are not the ethnic group but the other definition "person who wanders". :^) While we can sit here and volley these justifications back and forth all day, the larger point is that these cards and the art are what people construe them to be.
I am an educator and knowledgeable on the public schooling system, especially in America. History has been whitewashed to promote American imperialism, and and Common Core in America leaves quite a bit off the treatment of people of color in North and South America. Even if the history of race relations was properly documented in public school, supplementing with a variety of media shouldn't be frowned upon. Please don't use "We learned about race in school, so why is it in magic cards/tv/video games/etc." because it stifles learning and conversation
Lastly, saying that someone is "whining their $400 card got banned" is trivializing the issue. The players are paying for the mistake of Wizards from their own wallet. Please justify to me why players should be eating the monetary mistake of Wizards.
Thank you for the information about how Invoke Prejudice was made. This certainly helps us with evaluating the context of the card at the time, and now.
I agree, people aren't focusing on the issue of preservation and history and the long term impacts of trying to memory-hole the mistakes. There is more at stake than 7 cards which see fringe play, and people are equating the need for equity with the need to remove the records of what happened in the past.
I also agree that as soon as an inch is given, a mile will be taken. This is one of the reasons I am staunchly against these bannings. If the cards truly present a problem, there are solutions that involve Wizards spending time and money to correct them.
This is twice you've been called out for assuming ignorance with someone you're talking to. I'd still like to see even an acknowledgement of the racist things you've said in this thread, if not an apology and a pledge to do better on top. You've commented since then, so clearly you've read it. Do you see the hypocrisy when you're arguing for systemic changes for racial sensitivity when you choose not to acknowledge your own mistakes? Seriously, check yourself. I know you're a moderator on TappedOut, so maybe I should go to the person above you for intervention on your behalf since you can't act appropriately.
Also I agree with Toolmaster again, the coincidences around Invoke Prejudice do not show racist intent. You're a lawyer, right? How do you not understand that 4 pieces of circumstantial evidence isn't enough to hang the guilty? Especially when those 4 pieces of circumstantial evidence involve different people making the choices, with years inbetween (the card being made against gathered ID being assigned), and the artist on record speaking explicitly about the art and art direction.
Silencing voices on discussion is never a win. I understand what you're getting at, but the issue at hand is "Are the cards racist enough to warrant a ban?", so talking about what is and isn't racist is quite on topic. You don't have to be personally impacted by police brutality to speak on the issue.
DemonDragonJ on None
3 years ago
kanokarob, color in this game is unrelated to ethnicity, so I feel that Invoke Prejudice and possibly Pradesh Gypsies are the only overtly racist cards of those seven; the others being racist requires a stretch of imagination, in my mind.
Deadpoo111 on None
3 years ago
Wow, this was a really interesting move by WotC I honestly didn't see it coming, but I think I'm glad it did.
To start, I don't think this banning affects gameplay at all, the last time I saw any of these cards in a commander deck or other deck was never. Sure Crusade may be okay for white decks, but there are other, better, cards.
Onto each card:
-
Invoke Prejudice: I think everyone can agree that this card has no place in our game. When I learned it existed like 2 years ago, I was surprised it was ever printed (which is also what Wizard's said in their article)
-
Cleanse: a lot of people think this shouldn't be banned. The tone seems like exactly what Wizards said in the article.
-
Stone-Throwing Devils: I honestly didn't know this card existed. I can certainly see why it's banned now, again, I don't think this banning actually hurts anyone.
-
Pradesh Gypsies: The term is a slur, I'm almost uncomfortable putting the card name here. This card shouldn't have been created in the first place. I saw an argument from someone that said they felt this excluded people who identified as (and these are their words) "a gypsie" and that they felt the banning of this card took away their ability to relate to the game. The only question is if the person knew this card existed. It's really freakin' obscure.
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Jihad: very straight forward card. I agree with the decision to ban it. Also, I've never seen ANYONE play this card in my 4+ years of constant commander and no I never will sooo
-
Imprison: Again, very surprised this card existed. I'll make a point about old magic cards soon but like...damn, WotC was messed up in the early days. The art is a clear depiction of what others have said above, I don't think there should be any argument about this cards banning.
-
Crusade: This might be the most debated card aside from cleanse. While I've never played against or seen it, I do know people that run this card in mono white decks. The card legitimately references the actual crusades, especially with the OG art and while a lot of people use: "it's time for another crusade" ironically, the historical event is a terrifying glimpse of how bad humanity actually is, I agree with this banning, though it may affect a few players within the community (EDH speaking.
For one, I don't disagree with the bannings, Wizards essentially removing cards that depict or reference real-world (yes it's important to distinguish between real world and reality)intolerance is a good thing as it will promote a healthier game. Overall, the bans don't affect anyone other than Crusade for which there is a functional reprint.
I've got two last points to make. The first is that these cards are from the beginning of Magic's history. These old sets simply weren't regulated like they are today. The company didn't put a ton of care into it's public image like they do today.
Finally, I do think this is Wizard's hopping on a corporate bandwagon. While I do agree these cards should've been banned a long time ago (Tbh they shouldn't have been made at all), I think Wizards could've banned them at any time, but now that people are taking a closer look into companies in light of the recent events in america, Wizards felt some pressure to erase past mistakes (which is still a good thing). At least those cards are finally out of here, they didn't have a good use anyway.
Boza on None
3 years ago
The only one I can get behind is Invoke Prejudice - the artist is a white supremacist and the depiction of KKK members was never OK.
The rest are weird:
- Pradesh Gypsies - how is it banned, but Jhoira of the Ghitu and all the other cards depictiping gypsies are fine?
- Cleanse is extremely far-fetched. How is Absolute Grace not implying black people lack grace and white people are shining with it? Does Righteous War fuel racial conflict because it gives protection from the opposite race?
- Stone-Throwing Devils - is it the reference to the bible or the reference to real world practises? Or is it neither of those at the same time?
- crusade and jihad - while having references to the real world, these are far from connected to what the real events do. There are 21 cards with "crusade" or "crusader" in their name, none of them banned. Heck Tivadar's Crusade literally has a goblin being tortured on a cross.
- Imprison - is this the way to honor the work of the late Christopher Rush, who made the Black Lotus and is singlehandedly responsible for much of Magic's popularity thanks to his super famous card? Even if it is OK to do, why is Oubliette not banned, despite being an extremely similar card in terms of theme. Or Wheel of Torture which directly conflates real-world game shows with torture for a laugh (it is a hilarious flavor text).
Most importantly, why now? Why after 3 weeks of protests and not 2 weeks? Why not in 2016 when similar protests were occurring? Or at any point prior to that? These have been part of the game for 20 years. How were these cards printed, when all of these were contentious topics even back then?
The bandwagon is strong with this announcement.
RiotRunner789 on None
3 years ago
Cleanse was an overreach. It was banned for, as you said, referring to the destruction of black creatures. I do not believe any magic player is confusing the color pie with ethnicity.
Also, if cleanse is banned so should Virtue's Ruin, Mass Calcify, along with a ton of other cards that reference black, white, red, etc.
Jihad and Crusade have problematic names due to history but I do not believe they should have gotten the axe either.
Stone-Throwing Devils and Pradesh Gypsies have been used as slurs before. So while the art doesn't look bad it was banned for that reason.
Overall I think WOTC made the right choice except for Jihad, Crusade, and Cleanse. I also think they should have put the art behind a click screen instead of straight removal. Just removing the art partly feels like they are hiding some of their choices in the past.
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