Zur's Effect Really Doesn't Target?

Asked by Sousaphonist 8 years ago

I found a ruling on magiccards.info that said that if you use Zur the Enchanter's effect to bring out an Aura, it doesn't actually target what you choose to put it on. This seems like a very strange ruling to me, so I must ask about two very specific instances:

  1. If I give Zur the Enchanter Diplomatic Immunity, can I continue to use his effect to add new enchantments to him?

  2. Can I use his ability to put Pacifism (or similar enchantment on a creature that would normally have protection (like Progenitus?

Wiinsomniacs says... #1

  1. Yes.
  2. It would attach, then fall off immediately due to the protection, whether it's from colour, enchantments, or in Progenitus' case, everything.

The most useful application of this is being able to enchant creatures that otherwise cannot be targeted, such as Hexproof and Shroud effects, or global effects like Asceticism.

August 1, 2015 7:58 p.m.

FancyTuesday says... #2

With 1, yes, because auras only target when cast and not when entering the battlefield as part of an effect that does not cast them or attatch them to a "target," as is the case with Zur.

2 is more iffy, because while it gets around the "targeting" part of protections it's still an invalid permanent for it to attach to, so the aura falls off as a state based action after it attaches. So in short, you can use it to get around targeting restrictions like shroud and hexproof, but not so much protections.

August 1, 2015 8:02 p.m. Edited.

Rhadamanthus says... #3

  1. Yes. An aura only has a target when it's being cast as a spell, not when it's being attached some other way.
  2. No. "Protection from NN" doesn't allow attached objects with the NN property. If you bring in Pacifism with Zur then you're not allowed to choose Progenitus. You have to choose something else. If there are no options for legal attachments then the aura stays in the library instead of entering the battlefield.
August 1, 2015 8:12 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #4

303.4a An Aura spell requires a target, which is defined by its enchant ability.

303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura's enchant ability and any other applicable effects.

Auras only target as spells. If an Aura is put onto the battlefield by some means other than resolving it as a spell, then the Aura simply becomes attached to a legally enchantable object. This process doesn't target.

Therefore, Diplomatic Immunity does not prevent Zur the Enchanter from enchanting itself with new Auras through its triggered ability.

However, you cannot enchant Progenitus; protection, in part, means that the protected object cannot be enchanted by Auras of the protected-against quality. Because Progenitus has protection from everything, it's not a legal choice for Pacifism. You can't even attempt to attach Pacifism to Progenitus (Wiinsomniacs and FancyTuesday take note); if you find Pacifism with Zur the Enchanter's ability, you need to attach it to some legal object (even if that means attaching it to Zur the Enchanter).

August 1, 2015 8:12 p.m.

FancyTuesday says... #5

Interesting. That makes sense, seeing it spelled out. I was mulling over DEBT after I posted and realized that was probably an error, thanks for clearing that up.

August 1, 2015 8:23 p.m.

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