Zaraxa + Sproutback Trudge ruling
Asked by SadistkSuffring 2 years ago
Im creating a Zaxara commander deck and was curious.. Been looking around and can't seem to find an answer at all. If anyone could provide their insight, I'd greatly appreciate it. Would Sproutback Trudge proc Zaxara, the Exemplary ? It is still a mana ability. If it did, then would it proc for the reduction amount? I'd say it seems feasible but I might be missing something.
SadistkSuffring says... #2
True but it's an ability that inserts itself as an x mana cost in a round about way. It also doesn't have to be a summon cost for it to proc since it does with stuff like Polukranos, World Eater when it goes monstrous. Id say personally, if changelings are still considered everything while in your library and not summoned then a round about x mana cost ability should still apply. Did you actually find a ruling or just applying your own logic? I only play with friends anyways and we usually decide what we want if there's no official ruling but its nice to know what wizards says is correct
April 18, 2022 10:06 p.m.
SadistkSuffring says... #3
I do normally like the logic behind wizards but sometimes they are a bit off. Like they say Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp doesn't circumvent commander tax because it's a replacement cost and not a reduction in cost. How is Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow not a replacement?
April 18, 2022 10:25 p.m.
I don't think Polukranos, World Eater's Monstrous ability would trigger Zaxara's ability. It's not a spell being cast.
I'm not sure where the exact rule is, but a cost-reducing ability isn't the same as a mana cost. Magic-ese is a very technical and precise language, and a "mana cost" is defined as what you're expected to pay, not an adjustment to the payment.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow's commander ninjutsu ability doesn't involve casting a spell. It's just put directly into the battlefield, and as such isn't subject to the commander tax. There are several rules cross-references for this one, including 903.8 Commander tax, 702.49 ninjutsu and 702.49d commander ninjutsu, and I can't find a rule number, but "put into the battlefield" is not the same as "cast."
April 18, 2022 10:42 p.m.
The relevant ruling from gatherer on the card is as follows:
"To determine the total cost of a spell, start with the mana cost or alternative cost you're paying, add any cost increases, then apply any cost reductions (such as that of Sproutback Trudge's first ability). Sproutback Trudge's mana value is always 9, no matter what the total cost to cast the spell was."
It is very clear here - the X referred to is a cost reduction. There is no X in the the spell's mana cost, unlike something like Green Sun's Zenith. Additionally, the previous gatherer ruling states:
"Sproutback Trudge's ability counts the total amount of life gained without considering any life you lost during that turn. For example, if you lost 3 life and gained 4 life earlier in the turn, Sproutback Trudge will cost "
This states that the card has a cost reduction ability, not that the card has a variable CMC as with X spells.
While you can argue that this is "kind of like" the card having an X in it's cost (in reality it's more like a Y-X as it's a cost reduction), unfortunately this is not how MtG rules work. These kind of things are very clear cut.
Also, on your comment around Zaxara, the Exemplary and Polukranos, World Eater, Zaraxa's ability specifically says "when you cast a spell with in its mana cost". Cast here is the operative word - Polukranos's ability is just that, an ability so it will not trigger Zaraxa's triggered ability. The same is true for copying X spells - copies are simply put on the stack, not cast so they will also not trigger Zaraxa's abiliy unless the spell copying explcitly says "cast the copy".
April 19, 2022 3:42 a.m.
Also, Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp offers you an alternate casting cost. You can pay a reduced mana cost to cast the spell, but you're still casting the spell. Cost reductions and increases still apply, including those from Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, and command tax.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow has an ability that puts her onto the battlefield from the command zone. You're not casting her, so you're not increasing her command tax and you don't have to pay command tax. Whether or not that's fair is... subjective, I guess, but them's the rules.
April 19, 2022 4:23 a.m. Edited.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
A card's "mana cost" is specifically the symbols printed in the upper-right corner of a standard Magic frame. Sproutback Trudge doesn't have in its mana cost, so it doesn't interact with Zaxara, the Exemplary.
As written, Zaxara only triggers when you cast a spell, not when you activate an ability. It doesn't interact with Polukranos, World Eater.
Commander tax applies every time the commander is cast from the command zone. Zahid, Djinn of the Lamp has an option for an alternate casting cost. If you use the alternate cost to cast Zahid from the command zone then the commander tax will apply, as will any other casting cost increasing/reducing effects.
The commander ninjutsu on Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow is an activated ability (you can see in the reminder text it's written out as "[Cost] : [Effect]", the standard formatting for activated abilities). If you use it, you're not casting the spell, so commander tax and any other casting cost increasing/reducing effects won't apply.
April 19, 2022 9:33 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #8
SadistkSuffring: Answers to your question have been up for a while. Since there don't seem to be any further follow-ups or corrections to be made, I marked one of them as the "Accepted answer" so this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. In the future you can take care of this yourself using the "Mark as Answer" button on the response that you feel best answers your question.
If you still have more questions/clarifications for this topic, feel free to reply with them here.
legendofa says... #1
Sproutback Trudge doesn't affect Zaxara, the Exemplary. The Trudge has a cost-reducing ability, not an in any mana cost. The mana cost for the Trudge is .
April 18, 2022 9:34 p.m.