Where can I find the Rule?
Asked by FALLEN-X-ANGEL 8 years ago
I've been having situations where I continuously lose arguments to people that Disagree with me on some ruling, and what I know is ruled off due to lack of people to back me up. It's pretty much: "Oh more people are on this side so this side is right". I've been having trouble finding the ruling for when this situation happens.
I have a Thalia, Guardian of Thraben on the board and my opponent is tapped out and tries to Force of Will, Daze, etc. My opponent still has to pay the Extra one that Thalia boosts them up to but the meta in my town thinks otherwise...
Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2
Google and download "MTG Comprehensive Rulebook." Additionally, the Gatherer rulings exist as a secondary resource. Some MTG apps also have the rules within them. Either way, you'll need to spend some time familiarizing yourself with the rules so you know where to find things.
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be 
. It can't be reduced to less than . Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
Force of Will and Daze each have an alternate cost that allows you to pay [something] rather than pay ~'s mana cost.
Therefore, your opponent will calculate the spell's cost by taking the alternate cost plus any increased or additional costs and minus any cost reductions (there are none here). Force of Will's cost will be "Pay 1 life, exile a blue card from your hand, 
." Daze's cost will be "Return an Island you control to its owner's hand, ."
July 8, 2015 7:29 p.m. Edited.
Gidgetimer says... #4
I would just bookmark the rulebook rather than downloading it. The comprehensive rules are updated every 3 months so if you do download it make sure to replace the file with the new one each time it is changed. The changes are most of the time just addition of new keywords but some unexpected rules will change subtly sometimes so it is safest to make sure you have the newest rulebook.
July 8, 2015 9:58 p.m.
Just popping in to say that there's also a free app you can get to have the comprehensive rules on your phone if you're an iPhone user (There's probably an android equivalent, but I don't know it.) It's called MTG Rules and it's just the full comprehensive rules separated into sections going by the table of contents. It is, however, a little out of date (last updated, Oct. 1st 2012), so it's worth looking up what rules updates have taken place in the last few years, but for general things that haven't changed in a long time it's very convenient to be able to just pull out your phone if someone disagrees with you.
There's also a paid app called MTG Guide that seems to have the comprehensive rules on it, but I can't tell you whether it's worthwhile as I haven't bought it. It's $6.99.
Rhadamanthus says... #1
Cards do what they say, no more and no less. Thalia says noncreature spells cost
more to cast, so they do. Also, a spell's "mana cost" is specifically the symbols printed in the corner of the card. When an alternative cost lets you cast a spell without paying its mana cost, those symbols are the only part of the cost you're getting for free.
If you need to reference an official rule:
117.9d If an alternative cost is being paid to cast a spell, any additional costs, cost increases, and cost reductions that affect that spell are applied to that alternative cost.
July 8, 2015 7:28 p.m.