Reactions on the Stack
Asked by Duiliath 6 years ago
I have Psychosis Crawler in play and my opponent has Consecrated Sphinx and 2 Jace's Erasures in play. I draw 3 cards during my turn, from Vivisection ability. I think the order of actions is:
I draw 3 cards. Then Consecrated Sphinx makes my opponent draw 2x3 cards. Then they lose 3 life from Psychosis Crawler. Then their Jace's Erasures trigger and I mill 2x6 cards
My Opponent thinks that the order is:
I draw 3 cards Then their Consecrated Sphinx makes them draw 2x3 cards. Then Their Jace's Erasures make me mill 4x3 cards. Then they lose 3 life
I was in a situation where this determined who won since I had 10 cards left in my deck and she had 3 life. We want to know who was right or if there is a different order we didn't realize.
Well I guess that solves the issue of who won but I want to know the order of effects as well and how these cards get put on the stack since this can happen earlier in the game.
December 14, 2017 4:22 p.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... Accepted answer #3
APNAP. When more than one trigger from more than one player is put on the stack, it goes in turn order, starting with the Active Player. Assuming this whole thing happened on your turn (you casted a sorcery to kick this whole thing off so I think that's a safe assumption assuming no Hypersonic Dragons were involved), you triggers will always go on the stack before your opponents when triggering off the same event, and therefor your opponents triggers will resolve first.
So:
You cast Vivisection
Each player passes priority
Vivisection Resolves
Psychosis Crawler and Consecrated Sphinx trigger simultaneously
Crawler's ability is put on the stack first, then Sphinx's.
Assuming both players pass priority, Sphinx resolves
Jace's Erasures trigger and are put on the stack
The Erasures resolve, then the Crawler Resolves, assuming no responses.
TL;DR, your opponent is correct. but as MWorl91 pointed out, you don't lose for having an empty library, you lose for attempting to draw from an empty library.
December 14, 2017 4:46 p.m.
Okay, to see if I have this in my head right could you verify or refute this stack order if in addition to Psychosis Crawler I also had a Consecrated Sphinx and Jace's Erasure and my opponent has Consecrated Sphinx and Jace's Erasure when I draw cards:
(Assuming whenever applicable players pass priority)
I cast Vivisection.
Vivisection resolves and I draw 3 cards.
Psychosis Crawler and opponent's Consecrated Sphinx trigger simultaneously and Psychosis Crawler is on the stack first.
Opponent's Consecrated Sphinx resolves and my Consecrated Sphinx and the opponents Jace's Erasure trigger simultaneously.
My Consecrated Sphinx is put on the stack first then my opponent's Jace's Erasure is put on the stack and resolves.
Then my Consecrated Sphinx resolves and triggers my Jace's Erasure which then resolves.
Then after everything Psychosis Crawler deals damage to the opponent.
Is this the right idea or am I missing something?
December 14, 2017 5:39 p.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #6
Okay so that sort of scenario gets hairy real fast.
In addition to APNAP order, if a player controls multiple triggered abilities that trigger off of the same event, that player choses what order their triggers go on the stack in, relative to one another.
If Player A (the active player) has: Psychosis Crawler, Consecrated Sphinx, and Jace's Erasure
And Player N (the non-active player) has: Consecrated Sphinx, and Jace's Erasure
Player A casts Vivisection
It resolves and Player A draws three cards.
A's Crawler triggers, A's Erasure triggers, and N's Sphinx triggers three times at the same time. A chooses what order their Crawler and Erasure land on the stack, then they are followed by sphinx
Sphinx resolves. N draws two cards. (keep in mind, this is optional. the Sphinx very specifically says that you MAY draw two cards)
At this point, Crawler and Erasure are still on the stack, as well as two more instances of N's Sphinx, and A's Sphinx triggers twice at the same time N's Erasure triggers. Sphinxs go on the stack first, followed by Erasure.
So the stack looks like this:
N's Erasure
A's Sphinx
A's Sphinx
N's Sphinx
N's Sphinx
A's Crawler/A's Erasure (in the order of A's choosing)
Then n's erasure resolves, A mills 2.
A's Sphinx resolves, A draws 2 cards. At this point, A's Crawler triggers again and A's Erasure triggers again, as well as N's Sphinx. At this point we find ourselves more or less in the same state as before, except with another instance of A's Crawler/Erasure and sphinx stacks at the bottom.
The Stack is so:
N's Sphinx
N's Sphinx
A's Sphinx
N's Sphinx
N's Sphinx
A's Crawler and Erasure in the order of their choice
A's Crawler and Erasure in the order of their choice
Basically, so long as both players choose to draw off of their sphinx triggers that are triggering off of the other player's sphinx, this will continue until someone runs out of cards. If a player cuts the loop off by choosing not to draw cards, the stack will finally collapse and all of A's Crawlers and Erasures will finally resolve.
Again this is a really messy situation and I'm not even 100% sure I got everything correct here, I had to revise this post like twice lol.
Edit: and something I covered here that I missed in previous posts, Consecrated Sphinx triggers for each card the opponent drew, not just once for each instance of card draw effect. so Vivisection will trigger the enemy Sphinx 3 times.
December 14, 2017 6:27 p.m. Edited.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #7
Bah, Slip up on that post and I can't edit it anymore, the second stack looks like:
N's Sphinx
N's Sphinx
A's Crawler and Erasure in the order of their choice
A's Sphinx
N's Sphinx
N's Sphinx
A's Crawler and Erasure in the order of their choice
Not the order I listed it in. My bad.
MWorl91 says... #1
You win. You lose whenever you have 0 cards in deck and attempt to draw a card. Erasure mills them but doesn't force you to draw. So order of operations or not, you'll have 0 in library but they lose to having 0 life as long as they can't force you to draw from your empty library
December 14, 2017 4:13 p.m.