Narset, Enlightened Master

Asked by -Orvos- 8 years ago

If i have Squeeze in play will i have to pay 3 extra to cast any sorceries exiled with Narset, Enlightened Master? Or will that extra 3 be incorporated "without paying its mana cost" part of her ability?

Slycne says... Accepted answer #1

Narset, Enlightened Master's ability allows you to alternately cast the card itself for free, but additional costs like Squeeze are not part of the card and become factored in a different step of determining the final cost of a spell.

You would have to pay 3 for any sorcery.

• 117.9d If an alternative cost is being paid to cast a spell, any additional costs, cost increases, and cost reductions that affect that spell are applied to that alternative cost. (See rule 601.2f.)

September 28, 2015 1:32 a.m. Edited.

-Logician says... #2

You must pay the additional 3, even though the wording on Narset, Enlightened Master is a bit contradictory.

Imagine it like this. Narset provides an alternate cost of 0 mana for those noncreature spells. When determining the total cost of a spell, you use this equation.

Cost/alternate cost + additional costs - cost reductions + minimum cost (Trinisphere) = total cost.

The "Cost/alternate cost" is what narset changes to 0. The additional cost for sorceries is 3 from Squeeze. There are no cost reductions in play (which would be something like Helm of Awakening). There's no Trinisphere in play. So using that equation, a sorcery would cost:

0 + 3 - 0 + 0 = 3.

September 28, 2015 1:34 a.m.

Raging_Squiggle says... #3

If you check the Gatherer's website for Narset, Enlightened Master, you'll find an entry that says the following:

9/20/2014 Because youre already casting the card using an alternative cost (by casting it without paying its mana cost), you cant pay any other alternative costs for the card, including casting it face down using the morph ability. You can pay additional costs, such as kicker costs. If the card has any mandatory additional costs, you must pay those.

117.8e Some effects increase the cost to cast a spell or activate an ability without using the word additional. Those are not additional costs, and are not considered until determining the total cost of a spell or ability as described in rule 601.2e.

601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be 0. It cant be reduced to less than 0. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes locked in. If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

To conclude, you would only pay the "3" that is directly applied from Squeeze.

September 28, 2015 1:37 a.m.