How does this play pan out?

Asked by Bockduck 7 years ago

Thing in the Ice  ^Flip and Jori En, Ruin Diver is on the board and I play two spells. Which one goes on the stack first and how does this pan out?

Another question: How do you really play with the mechanic "madness"? If I play paper format and lets say plays Lightning Axe with the discard costs and uses Fiery Temper and madness it. Do I just say " yeah I madness temper with lightning axe" and move on or do I need to exile it first and then after target it?

hyperlocke says... Accepted answer #1

1)

Playing the second spell triggers the abilities of both creatures at the same time. As you control both abilities, you get to chose the order they are put onto the stack.

1.1)

• Thing resolves first (you put its ability on top). A counter is removed. If it was the last counter, Thing will transform.
• Now Awoken Horror  ^Flip's triggered ability is put on top of the stack.
• When it resolves, all non-Horror creatures are returned to their owner's hands.
• Jori En's ability resolves and you draw a card.
• Finally, your original spell resolves.

1.2)

If you put Jori En's ability on top, the same stuff will happen, just in different order. First you draw a card, then you remove a counter from Thing, maybe it transforms and returns all non-Horrors to hand, then your spell resolves.

Note that an ability on the stack exists independently from its source. So you will get to draw a card, even if you don't control Jori En anymore.

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2)

Madness is a keyword for two linked abilities.

The first one is a static ability that replaces you discarding the card with exiling it. The second is a triggered ability that triggers when you did so. When this ability resolves, you get to chose whether to cast that card without paying its cost or just put it into your graveyard from exile.

• You cast Lightning Axe, discarding Fiery Temper as part of the cost. Axe is put onto the stack. Madness replaced the discard with exiling Temper.
• The second part of the Madness ability triggers and is put onto the stack.
• When it resolves, you may cast Temper without paying its cost (It is put onto the stack). If you don't, it is put into your graveyard from exile.
• Temper resolves (if you cast it).
• Axe resolves.

February 6, 2017 12:55 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #2

In the future, please ask separate questions in separate threads.

February 6, 2017 1:31 p.m.

Neotrup says... #3

Small clarification, you would cast Fiery Temper paying it's madness cost (an alternative cost), not "without paying it's mana cost." This can be a difference if there's a Trinisphere out because you would just pay with it being an alternative cost, whereas if it was pay the madness to let you not pay the mana cost you'd have to pay for the right to pay to cast it.

February 6, 2017 2:53 p.m.