How does Poppet Factory Flip interact with abilities that are given but not printed on tokens?
Asked by Chaospyke 2 years ago
If I have a Vizier of the Scorpion on the battlefield with Poppet Factory, will my Z-tokens have deathtouch? If I attack with a creature equipped with Wand of Orcus will my Z-tokens gain deathtouch?
In the words of Shrek, "onions have layers"
In this case, everything is applied during layer 6, so time stamp is relevant. For Vizier of the Scorpion and Poppet Factory, it's a matter of which one starting doing it's thing first. If Vizier has entered since the Factory transformed, your zombie tokens will have death touch, otherwise, they will not. Now, Wand of Orcus's trigger happening during combat will mean that it will grant deathtouch, unless the Factory is somehow transformed after the Wand's trigger has resolved (as Stitcher's transform trigger happens on your upkeep, that is unlikely, but noteworthy).
Relevant rules as follows:
613.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding effects, keyword counters, ability-removing effects, and effects that say an object can’t have an ability are applied.
613.3 Within layers 2–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)
October 5, 2021 9:25 a.m.
Basically, watch out for Moonmist and Poppet Stitcher Flip together, as this combo can cause some of the shenanigans mentioned here.
Gidgetimer says... #1
The result is going to be determined by timestamps with more recent effects overriding older effects. Permanents receive a timestamp when they enter. Transforming double faced cards get a new timestamp each time they transform. Continuous effects created by the resolution of a spell or ability have a timestamp of when the spell or ability resolved.
This means that in general your zombie tokens will have the deathtouch from Wand of Orcus (unless you find a way to transform into Poppet Factory during combat). The interaction between Vizier of the Scorpion and Poppet Factory will depend on if the Vizier entered more recently or if Poppet Stitcher Flip transformed into Poppet Factory more recently.
October 5, 2021 8:59 a.m.