Entering the battlefield order
Asked by TowelGuy 8 years ago
So I have been willing to build the Turning Dogs into Apes for $25 deck I saw on this site, but I have a doubt.
Let's say I have a Cloudfin Raptor on the battlefield, then I cast my Young Wolf, which evolves the raptor making it an 1/2, then I cast my Pongify on the wolf and...what hapens? The wolf dies and Undying triger but, do the ape enters the battlefield first, second or at the same time? Do I choose how they enter? Do they enter the battlefield at the same time and I chose how does evolve triger? Do I get a 2/3 raptor or a 3/4??
I had a similar doubt with Cathars' Crusade and Raise the Alarm, how many times does the cathar's hability trigger, onece ot twice??
Thanks for your answers
Named_Tawyny says... #2
Objects resolve on the stack in the reverse order from which they enter (Last in, first out). Once an object starts resolving, nothing else can resolve until it's finished it's resolution. (Things can still get put on the stack though.)
In your example:
Pongify is on the top of the stack and all players pass priority. Pongify begins to resolve. It destroys your Young Wolf, which puts the undying triggered ability on the stack. But before we can go back to the stack, Pongify needs to finish resolving; it then puts a 3/3 Ape creature onto the battlefield. This triggers Cloudfin Raptor's Evolve ability, which now goes on the top of the stack.
So the stack now looks like this, from bottom to top: (anything that was already below Pongify, Young Wolf's undying ability, Cloudfin Raptor's evolve ability.
Players get priority. If all players pass priority the stop of the stack resolves. This makes Cloudfin Raptor a 2/3. Then priority again. If all players pass, then the top of the stack resolves, which is the undying ability of Young Wolf; it enters as a 2/2. Since neither the power nor the toughness is greater than Cloudfin Raptor's current p/t, evolve does not trigger.
October 25, 2015 9:56 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #3
Here is a play-by-play of what happens if you go with the second option, in case you need help navigating through all the triggers:
- You have Young Wolf and a Cloudfin Raptor with a +1/+1 counter on the battlefield. You cast Pongify targeting Young Wolf. Nobody responds, so Pongify begins resolving.
- Pongify destroys Young Wolf, triggering Undying.
- Pongify puts a 3/3 ape token onto the battlefield under your control, triggering Cloudfin Raptor's Evolve.
- Pongify finishes resolving.
- As discussed, you get to pick the order. You choose to put Evolve on the bottom of the stack and Undying on the top.
- Undying resolves and Young Wolf comes back as a 2/2. As Cloudfin Raptor is currently a 1/2, its Evolve ability triggers again and is put on the stack on top of the other Evolve trigger.
- The Evolve trigger created by Young Wolf resolves, and Cloudfin Raptor gains another +1/+1 counter, becoming a 2/3.
- The Evolve trigger created by the 3/3 ape token resolves, and Cloudfin Raptor gains one final +1/+1 counter, becoming a 3/4.
October 25, 2015 10:14 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
@Named_Tawyny: Ypure incorrect. Objects cannot be placed onto the stack during a resolution unless the resolving object instructs you to cast or copy something. Abilities that trigger during a resolution must wait until they process is complete; they are put onto the stack afterward in the order of their controller's choosing (assuming one player controls them).
October 25, 2015 10:15 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #5
@ Named_Tawyny: That is incorrect. The resolution of Pongify causes two different things to trigger, but they do not go on the stack until Pongify is done resolving and you get to pick the order at that time.
October 25, 2015 10:16 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #7
Unless there are objections, I was thinking of using this question as a jumping point to write about triggers for the first episode of a yet-to-be-named, yet-to-be-started article series.
October 25, 2015 10:29 a.m.
No objections here, I'm looking forward to read that article.
October 25, 2015 10:39 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #9
Epochalyptik you're correct. That's why I shouldn't answer questions before my morning coffee. ;)
TheRedMage says... Accepted answer #1
In the first case: there is a different between "triggering" and "being put on the stack". Triggered abilities trigger whenever their condition is met; however, they are not actually put on the stack until a player would get priority. If multiple things would go on the stack at the same time, you get to chose how to stack them if you control all of them.
When Pongify resolves, you do what it tells you to in the order it tells you to do that. So you destroy the Young Wolf, and Undying triggers. Then you put a 3/3 ape token into play, and Evolve triggers, Finally, Pongify finishes resolving and both the Undying and Evolve triggers are trying to go on the stack; as they are trying to go on the stack at the same time and you control both of them, you can stack them however you want.
In this case, the most convenient way is to put the Undying trigger on the stack second, so it will resolve first. In that case, when your 2/2 Young Wolf enters the battlefield, your Cloudfin Raptor is still a 1/2 and evolves into a 2/3. Then, the ape comes in, and evolves it again into a 3/4.
For the second question: every creature entering the batlefield triggers Cathars' Crusade. As before, you get to stack the two Cathars' Crusade triggers however you want (it doesn't matter as much, obviously, since they do the same thing). So a Raise the Alarm will give two counters to all of your creatures, including the soldiers tokens you just made (you should try it with Secure the Wastes for maximum fun).
October 25, 2015 9:55 a.m.