Do activations or triggers resolve first?
Asked by Thetreymeister 3 years ago
Specifically Horobi, Death's Wail with The Scorpion God. Will the Scorpion’s activation resolve before or after Horobi kills it? I always thought activations resolved first and then triggers which, in this situation, would provide a nice card draw engine for rakdos.
Tylord2894 says... #2
Just to underscore Rhadamanthus's, the only time where an activated ability resolves before an ability that triggered during activation is when the activated ability is a mana ability. E.g. a Llanowar Elves is enchanted with Brink of Disaster and is tapped for mana, you get the mana and then the Elf is destroyed.
June 24, 2020 10:55 p.m.
TonyStark9001 says... #3
there is no rule stating that certain types of abilities resolve before other types of abilities. it depends entirely on the order in which those abilities are put onto the stack. effects on the stack resolve in "first in, last out" order. since the activated ability was added to the stack first, it resolves last. since the trigger was added last, it resolves first.
June 27, 2020 1:23 p.m.
Tylord2894 says... #4
TonyStark9001, this is way I gave my example. The only time an ability resolves before anything that triggers during the process of it activating are mana abilities. Mana abilities don't get put onto the stack and resolve immediately after they are activated. That's why you get your mana after activating the ability of Llanowar Elves before it's destroyed by Brink of Disaster.
June 27, 2020 2:09 p.m.
Thetreymeister says... #5
If that’s how it is, then wouldn’t Geralf's Messenger + Yawgmoth, Thran Physician be infinite because the undying trigger would resolve before the sacrifice activation?
June 29, 2020 11:44 a.m.
Tylord2894 says... Accepted answer #6
Thetreymeister, that's close. You need two creatures with Undying.
Let's say you target Geralf's Messenger with the Yawgmoth activation but sacrifice the Messenger as part of the cost. The Messenger will come back before Yawgmoth activation will resolve, but the Messenger that just returned isn't the same game object as one that you originally targeted and sacrificed. Now that the target for the Yawgmoth activation doesn't exist, and the activation will fizzle when it tries to resolve.
This is where the rules of the game don't really align with the physical objects that make up the game. Any time something moves zones, it is considered to be a new object in the game's eyes even if that new object is represented by the same physical object. To the game, they are different.
That's why you need to have two Undying creatures to pull off this combo. Let's say you have Messengers A and B. You can target A by sacrificing B. B will come back with a +1 counter and drain your opponent, and then A will have a -1 counter put on it. You can now target B (to remove that +1 counter) by sacrificing A. A comes back with a +1 counter, drains your opponent, and B gets a -1 counter (which removes the +1 counter). Just repeat this back and forth sacrificing, and that's game.
June 29, 2020 12:04 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #7
Thetreymeister: In the steps of casting a spell or activating an ability, targets are chosen before paying costs (costs are paid last). If you target a Messenger but sacrifice the same Messenger to pay the cost of Yawgmoth's ability, the ability will fail to resolve when it's time because its target is gone (the game treats the Messenger that comes back from the graveyard as a different object from what it was on the battlefield).
You can keep this rolling with 2x Geralf's Messenger as long as you have enough life:
- Target one Messenger with Yawgmoth, Thran Physician's ability and sacrifice a different Messenger without a +1/+1 counter to pay the cost
- Undying triggers on the Messenger you sacrificed and it returns to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter
- Yawgmoth's ability resolves and puts a -1/-1 counter on the first Messenger. If it had a +1/+1 counter, the -1/-1 and +1/+1 counters remove each other
- Now you can target the second Messenger with Yawgmoth's ability, sacrifice the first Messenger to pay the cost, and keep the chain going (again, as long as you have enough life to keep paying)
June 29, 2020 12:14 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #10
Thetreymeister: If you feel like your question has been resolved, please use the "Mark as Answer" button to mark one of the responses as the "Accepted answer" so that this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions.
July 1, 2020 1:45 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #11
Thetreymeister: Since there don't seem to be any follow-ups or corrections to be made, I chose one of the responses to mark as the "Accepted answer" to move this topic out of the list of unanswered questions. Please remember to take care of this yourself in the future.
Rhadamanthus says... #1
In this and most examples, the triggered ability resolves first. If any abilities trigger during the process of activating an ability, the triggers will be put onto the stack on top of the activated ability. This means the triggered abilities will resolve first. In your specific example this means that when you target a creature while activating The Scorpion God's ability, Horobi, Death's Wail will trigger and the Horobi trigger will resolve before the Scorpion God activation.
June 24, 2020 10:37 p.m.