Can Kiora, the Tide's Fury conjure in Commander?
Asked by FatFreddiesCat 2 years ago
Can I conjure a Kraken Hatchling using Kiora in Commander, or does that violate the 100-card rule?
Bob
FatFreddiesCat says... #2
Thanks. I love when the rules are open to suggestion...
September 21, 2021 1:06 p.m.
It's not really an issue of the rules of the game being open to suggestion, it's that your asking about a card that physically does not exist, and who's Gatherer entry says it's not legal in any format (due to Gatherer not recognizing Historic). Where the card does exist, its handled by a game engine that can treat consistantly, but the format in question doesn't exist.
September 21, 2021 1:22 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #4
Rule 10 and Rule 903.11 aren't at odds with each other at all - there's no contradiction there.
903.11 starts with 'IF a player is allowed...'
As rule 10 explains, that player is NOT allowed. 903.11 exists because sometimes playgroups will Rule 0 away Rule 10 instead.
September 22, 2021 12:33 a.m.
First off, please do not mark your own reply as the accepted answer. In TappedOut's database individual cards link to any Rules Q&A questions about said card; the point of the "accepted answer" is to quickly allow players who might have the same question to find the answer by going through that card's page. A thank you is not the most helpful answer, ergo it should not be the accepted answer.
Second, the above answers get the general spirit of the answer correct: That Kiora, the Tide's Fury is not legal in commander, so the question is a bit moot.
However, they are incorrect in their application of Rule 10 and Rule 903.11--neither rule is Relevant to your question (assuming, arguendo, that your group Rule 0ed to allow Kiora into the game).
Commander Rule 10 and Rule 903.11 deal with bringing in cards from outside the game. Conjure DOES NOT involve bringing in a card from outside the game; therefore it does not implicate either Rule 10 or Rule 903.11.
Conjure, by definition, creates a copy of that card out of nowhere. It does not exist outside the game and is brought it; it does not exist in a sideboard; it simply comes into existence from the aether. In physical play, you would probably use a card from outside the game to represent the generated card--but, as an operation of the rules, that still is not technically "bringing a card from outside the game."
The Rules only do exactly what they say--no more, no less. As such, since you are not "bringing a card from outside the game" neither Rule 10 or Rule 903.11 is relevant to your inquiry.
Thus, if you were in a hypothetical situation where you were permitted by your playgroup to use Kiora, the Tide's Fury in commander, you could conjure as much as you wanted.
Neotrup says... #1
I believe Kiora, the Tide's Fury allows you to conjure Kraken Hatchlings beyond the 1-of/4-of limit in Historic Brawl/Historic. That said, she cannot be played in Commander due to only existing on Arena, which uses the Historic Brawl format that's similar to Commander. The word "Conjure" does not appear in the Comprehensive Rules for Magic: The Gathering and has no meaning outside of Magic: Arena, so how exactly it would work if you mocked up a copy of the card and your friends let you play it is up to you and your friends. The two most relevant rules are Rule 11 for Commander, and Rule 903.11 from the Comprehensive Rules.
10 Parts of abilities which bring other traditional card(s) you own from outside the game into the game (such as Living Wish; Spawnsire of Ulamog; Karn, the Great Creator; Wish) do not function in Commander.
903.11. If a player is allowed to bring a card from outside the game into a Commander game, that player can't bring a card into the game this way if it has the same name as a card that player had in their starting deck, if it has the same name as a card that the player owns in the current game, or if any color in its color identity isn't in the color identity of the player’s commander
These rules are a bit at odds with each other as one says you can't bring cards in at all and the other says you can, but are still limited to the 1-of rule. That said, Conjure doesn't behave exactly the same as a wish, so ultimately it would just be up to the play group how to interpret it.
September 20, 2021 6:09 p.m.