Universe Beyond Cards?
General forum
Posted on April 8, 2023, 6:17 p.m. by Tsukimi
I know WOTC has said that they can make functional reprints or whatever they're called where it's the same card and text but with an mtg flavor, but have they done that with any of the cards except those innistrad characters?
I find it to be a bummer tbh, a lot of the BG Tyranid and UG Astartes cards would go great in my bant token deck, but the flavor feels totally off having "Space Marines" in my very druid-ish deck. I wanted to try them out but flavor is a big part of deckbuilding for me. Maybe I'll make custom proxies that are functionally the same but rescinded myself since WOTC doesn't seem like they'll be doing it any time soon.
What do you think about these cards? Do you enjoy having aspects of other media as cards? Or do you feel like having them only exist as Universe Beyond cards feels lame?
So far, most of the released and announced Universes Beyond sets have been franchises that I know (or care) much about. I have a passing knowledge of Street Fighter and Lord of the Rings, I saw the D&D Honor Among Thieves movie and the first season of Stranger Things, and all the rest I have at best a very surface-level knowledge of, if anything. I'd like to see more of these as Universes Within cards--I don't really have a flavor problem with them, but I also have no idea what they mean, so they're not holding my interest.
April 8, 2023 8:48 p.m.
First sentence there needs a "don't" in it. So far, most of the released and announced Universes Beyond sets have been franchises that I don't know (or care) much about.
April 8, 2023 8:55 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #5
I think the “whoops, we’ll make regular versions of our ‘Burger King vs McDonald’s’ set” was more of a short-term escapist response than it was a long-term plan. I hope I’m wrong, and I think there’s still time for me to be wrong with the WH40K cards, but I’m not super optimistic. In all honesty I expect you’ll have cards that are measurably better before you’ll get M:tG versions of the cards in question. Like... in the next set.
April 8, 2023 9:13 p.m.
I do feel like only existing as "Universes Beyond" is lame. There are a couple of "space marine" types of cards that feels too corny in my decks, even though they are synergistic. A few of the cards blend right in to mixed fantasy + steampunk, others feel like a bit too much... And all this is coming from someone who usually cares more about mechanics & gameplay than card aesthetic.
April 9, 2023 12:01 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #7
(Laughing/crying) Gleeock you can imagine what I’ve been thinking
April 9, 2023 11 a.m.
Haha... Yes, your username/personality is an extra hilarious layer on this discussion :)
April 9, 2023 11:10 a.m.
I am not expecting WotC to meaningfully provide in-universe cards for the Universe Beyond cards in any kind of reasonable amount of time. I completely agree with FormOverFunction's statement on how WotC's "we'll make an in-universe card soon after" plan seemed like a response to community criticism as opposed to an actual plan.
Personally I feel rather conflicted about how to handle the Universes Beyond cards. If there is an in-universe version I'd use it without hesitation, but knowing that for most cards there won't be. I despise the Transformers cards in particular since I don't think there will be any in-universe reprints and they have some quite powerful cards that are also incredibly jarring when transposed with the Magic universe. I won't touch those cards at all.
On the other hand, as someone who loves the lore of Warhammer 40K, I think Wizards did a pretty good job capturing flavor and those commander decks are incredibly well built with some great new cards. Some of them, such as Be'Lakor, the Dark Master, could fit in just fine into the Magic universe with the art and flavor, but others (looking at you Space Marine Devastator) are much more awkward fits. I have a battle-box of all 4 commander decks because it's just great gameplay, but so far I haven't put any of those cards into decks yet. I probably will, but it will depend on how well the art/flavor can fit in with the Magic universe.
I have very little hope that the Doctor Who commander decks will be able to fit in much flavor at all. Warhammer 40K isn't science-fiction, but space-opera fantasy and so I think it offers more options to fit into Magic. Doctor Who is straight-up science-fiction with a largely modern-day aesthetic. I don't see how it won't be jarring.
As for Lord of the Rings, I think that it can obviously fit into the Magic universe since you can pretty much trace just about every fantasy universe, including Magic, back to Tolkien's works in one way or another. That being said, I won't be getting or using any of those cards for my decks. I'm a huge fan of Tolkien, and for me the mechanical choices that Wizards is going to have to make in order to make a functional set are just going to be too incongruent to Tolkien's works that I think it would just pull me out of enjoying the game. And it's not because Aragorn is black in the art, it's more that I think Gandalf the Grey as a spellslinging Izzet wizard is just a bad joke. This is a very personal feeling for me so I don't expect others to react similarly.
April 9, 2023 2:33 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #10
This is probably the tenth time I’ve backspaced over a big rant about the other-universe cards, as that isn’t helpful to the specific question asked in the thread and I don’t intend to work on getting people to stop liking something they enjoy. I’m glad Abaques mentioned transformers, though, because I’m not sure I’d even consider using a card that was a Shandalaar version of Shockwave. Can you even imagine what that would have to be...? I’m currently taking solace in the fact that they’ve doubled-back on the parity plan, honestly.
April 9, 2023 3:06 p.m.
FormOverFunction, you have more discipline than me. I started typing a reply, halfway through realized I was ranting and then just ran with it. :)
The overall point I probably didn't articulate very well is basically that how to handle Universe Beyond cards if you don't like they fit with the Magic universe is complicated. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. Everyone will have to figure out how to enjoy the game the best that they personally can.
You also said something important about not intending to get people to stop liking something they enjoy, and I am in complete agreement with you on that. But the thing about Universes Beyond is that the nature of what they are means that someone joining my commander pod with an Optimus Prime deck is going to lower my enjoyment of the game because I'll have to interact with it and I have been struggling with how to best approach that. A few weeks back I played against someone with a Street Fighter commander and honestly I just didn't enjoy that game.
April 9, 2023 7:11 p.m.
The position on flavor I've seen, and that I agree with, is that in a near-infinite multiverse, there's going to be a plane where the Transformers are doing things, there's a Street Fighter plane, there's a Doctor Who plane, and so on. To me, that's not much more jarring than a plane that's literally pharaonic Egypt with magic, or modern Japan with sci-fi magic, or Age of Exploration Central America with magic.
April 9, 2023 7:32 p.m.
legendofa it's all fine... but one weird thing about those "planes" that you are talking about is that they are really mostly just 19th-20th century Earth-plane with incongruent stories.. So it is a little awkward in that way. Dr. Who is a bit of an oddball in that dimensional travel is such a central theme there. It usually feels like at least the planes of MtG are still usually in the same dimension... but alot of these Earth-based planes would have to be starting to look at dimensional travel to mishmash them in... To be fair I've wanted Merlin to be a legit Earth-based planeswalker since the start of the game.
April 9, 2023 7:50 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #14
Primarily I focus on enjoying my deck and (more so) enjoying other people enjoying my decks. Secondarily I try to enjoy them enjoying their decks; if they summon the legendary burger-commander Wendy, because in an infinite system you’re bound to have a wizard that’s super focused on fours (hence the burger patty shape) and that is definitely their jam, then we’re going to have some fun burger discussions while I get bulldozed by 4/4 Burger warriors that are in groups of four. I have been able to, and will continue to, roll with that fine. It’s just sort of tiresome if it happens enough, so I definitely get what you’re saying. You just need to be more self-centered! ;p
April 9, 2023 9:47 p.m.
Only if Wendy could "Partner With" Randy BoBandy; who could take his pants off with in order to fight & transform into Phyrexian BoBandy
April 9, 2023 10:53 p.m.
Really, at this point, there should just be a Trailer Park Boys universe beyond
April 9, 2023 10:55 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #17
I mean, just play with them? If your table gets angry, tell the table to F-off. It's a game.
If proxies drawn on basic lands is okay, and gold bordered cards that are 1/10th price are okay, and custom commanders in some tables are okay, then an officially printed WOTC card should also be okay.
April 10, 2023 12:13 a.m.
That's hilarious Abaques because the card that was really bothering me was Space Marine Devastator. The squad and tyranid cards would be great for the token deck, but tossing a space marine in there just doesn't really match the Druidic/ Deep Woods Witch flavor of the rest of the deck. I get that flavor isn't something most people build around, but it's important to me and makes deckbuilding a bit more fun and restrictive and makes the game more fun as well. So this is about me wanting to put magic cards in my deck and being frustrated that they aren't really magic cards ahah, not in any way that my playgroup would be unhappy with them.
Since we proxy anyways, I was thinking I might just make "function reprint" proxies where everything is the same except the name, image, and flavor text.
Also, Gleeock I would happily slot Trailer Park Boys in any of my decks.
"When Julian ETB put a Rum and Coke counter on Julian. As long as Julian has a Rum and Coke counter, he is indestructible."
April 10, 2023 9:01 a.m.
Julian would possibly have a transform ability, where he gets all mean on the rye.
April 10, 2023 12:02 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #20
Is it a thing, where a returning player gets mad at cards that are good but ALSO destroy enchantments..? The card that started me on the path of quitting a second time was Kami of Ancient Law. It was a 2/2 Disenchant and that just seemed INSANE. Sort of funny how things like that work.
April 10, 2023 3:27 p.m.
FormOverFunction I'm not sure what you mean, I was just saying I don't like that the flavor of Sci Fi "Space Marines" and how it doesn't fit well thematically with mtg cards/decks. No issues with the card itself, I want to use it but hate the flavor.
April 10, 2023 3:32 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #22
sean360 no no, I get it. It just struck me suddenly as funny that the example that resonated with you, a returning player, was similar to one that stuck out to me when I returned. Totally tangential, borderline unrelated, and probably shouldn’t have even been mentioned. Sorry for muddying things. :)
April 10, 2023 4:05 p.m.
nammertime says... #24
I'm not a fan of Universes Beyond as a concept since it just doesn't suit the flavor of Magic, but I'm also a hypocrite and bought the Street Fighter II and Transformers ones due to being just such a big fan of those IPs.
I'd actually prefer they remain Universes Beyond cards so we know where they came from when we play them or played against them.
In any case, I opened 'The Howling Abomination' from a pack some months back, which is the functional copy of Blanka from Street Fighter (which I'd been using as a general... er, 'Commander'). I have to say, the Blanka card is much more flavorful the way the rules were written on it. The Howling Abomination's card text just looks boring as hell.
wallisface says... #2
Wotc have made a statement that any Secret Lair universes-beyond cards they make, will have an in-universe version printed in the near-future after release (6ish months?). This will be true of all universe-beyond secret lair product except for the very, very first release (before they'd made this promise).
For any universes-beyond set they make, like the 40k decks, or the upcoming LotR set, they have made no such promise. They have stated that if they have the capability to reprint these cards in-universe in the future for those cards that are popular (read: expensive) enough to warrant doing so. But they are not going to be doing in-universe versions of all of these cards. And, we probably won't see any of those cards they do eventually reprint in-universe, for many years from now (they'll have to reach a price-point where Wotc see it worthy enough to add into a set as a chase card).
April 8, 2023 8:20 p.m.