How is the New Voja Remotely Balanced?
General forum
Posted on April 8, 2024, 8:53 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I know that I ask this question very frequently, but WotC continues to print cards that I feel are simply too powerful for their mana costs, and the new Voja, Jaws of the Conclave is among the newest of those cards; for five mana, the new Voja is a 5/5 creature with three keyword abilities (including ward ) and a powerful triggered ability, which I feel is simply too much value for such a low mana cost.
If the new Voja did not have ward, did not have its triggered ability, or cost 7 mana, I would have accepted it, but, as he currently is, he provides simply too much value for too low of a cost; I understand that some level of power creep in any game is inevitable, but this is essentially power escalation, in my mind; I can accept both Aurelia, the Law Above outclassing Serra Angel or Scourge of Valkas outclassing Shivan Dragon, because they are subtle improvements over the originals, but Voja, Jaws of the Conclave is simply ridiculous, to me.
What does everyone else say about this? How is Voja, Jaws of the Conclave remotely balanced?
DemonDragonJ says... #3
wallisface, you are definitely correct that this version of Voja requires there being numerous other creatures on the battlefield in order for him to have optimum effect, but I still that the ward ability was excessive.
April 8, 2024 9:58 p.m.
wallisface says... #4
DemonDragonJ the card would be utterly unplayable without Ward imo. Also, as-is by the time this us castable, opponents will likely have enough mana to easily pay for that ward cost (assuming the cost of the kill-spell itself is efficient).
As-is it still requires a bunch of hoops to jump-through to get any real value. I could be wrong but I don’t see this making any kind of long-term waves in a format dominated by combos and pushed-effects.
April 8, 2024 10:27 p.m.
I don't really think I'd waste my time with 1:1 removal on Voj. Just keep running those sweepers... I think if they keep printing take-over-the-game commanders, that will be the direction the game is headed. Honestly, in multiplayer, I'm finding more value in sweepers over using a card up only to set back one player and allow an opening to the next
April 9, 2024 5:25 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #6
wallisface, I am very glad that you have faith that not every new card is overpowered.
April 9, 2024 8:27 p.m.
wallisface says... #7
DemonDragonJ some cards will always inevitably be overpowered. I don’t think it’s entirely responsible to assume a new card is too-strong until it’s had time being played in a meta - if it becomes format warping then there becomes reason to question its validity in a format.
I think magic players generally are too keen to “cry witch” with new cards before they’ve been given any time to be evaluated and played in the meta.
April 9, 2024 8:54 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #8
wallisface, yes, that makes sense, and perhaps I have been rather hasty to judge the new Voja.
April 9, 2024 9:51 p.m.
My real question is, why does a wolf and elf commander draw cards? It's not just that Voja is possibly overpowered, it's that with one line of card text this became a very stagnant possibly overpowered card. It's by far the best aggro commander ever printed and it not only locks you into creature types but also locks you into a ramp-draw playstyle.
I just massively dislike this one because it's like they are trying to make the best aggro deck ever printed, but also make the list basically solved at printing.
April 11, 2024 7:57 a.m.
What I do know, is that Voj makes Tovalar, Dire Overlord go all sad Trombonski. Yeah, putting aggro win on and draw on the commander is lazy, and becoming common. So, basically this deck list will be elfball, dorks, & wolf tokens, with the only variance being some high cmc cards to use all that ramp dork juice on. It is more boring than Lathril. Not sure why we need so much pushed elf cross typal or elfball... WITH ANOTHER COLOR!!
April 11, 2024 9:08 a.m.
Gleeock Yep, it's pretty rough that the best werewolf deck is now also the best elf deck with some random wolves. I think the original werewolf transform mechanic was so fun, actually rewarding you for holding things in your hand and having to plan when to play and when to not, and I really wish they expanded on that mechanic rather than make a weird replacement and now a top tier wolf commander that has nothing to do with any of it.
They kind of took a deck that interacts with the board in a unique way and rolled it into elfball. I mean, you can always still run a casual werewolf fun deck, but the more they make omni-powered 3 or 4 color good stuff commanders, the harder it gets to play something like original werewolves with anyone outside of your playgroup.
April 11, 2024 10 a.m.
Haha, Tovwolf was too Gruul for his own good. Niko9 you know darn well! :) that day/night was WAY too midgame of a concept for modern "Commander" that sort of thing would imply that multiple turns can actually occur in the format without the endgame being nigh. No, no, no, this is a game where your fast beginning & your endgame wincons are what matter :)
& we will keep making sure that we aggro-wincon + hand refill on our commanders. Make sure that the game has more: reset the board or lose, scenarios.
I don't have too many decks any more that I am confident would make for a good time at an LGS or GP.
April 11, 2024 4:08 p.m.
You know, I just realized that with red in it's colors, Voja is probably nuts with extra combat step effects. Just untapping creatures like Priest of Titania and Marwyn, the Nurturer multiple times a turn is big, whil also drawing cards...wait...wow...
I mean, I used to play an elfball deck that would go infinite turn 4 very consistently, and thinking about it, I worry what Voja would do to that kind of deck because if you can try to go infinite as fast as possible, get interrupted, then cast Voja, then try to draw into another infinite, all in a way that synergizes, this could be pretty rough for the other 3 players at the table.
Really though, I don't think Voja will be some cEDH powerhouse or anything, but it may be too much for casual, something like Narset, Enlightened Master
wallisface says... #2
This card seems fine considering it’s been printed with commander specifically in mind (and is completely unplayable in any other format).
It is according to edhrec the 3rd most popular commander this month, which would imply that there’s two others which are bigger problems… but also all these commanders are new cards, which are seeing a lot of play simply because they’re new and flashy. I suspect if you look at that page a few months from now this Wolf will have dropped significantly, if it’s on there at all.
Imo this card cares too much about other creatures, which means it’s too easy to hate on. I suspect that commender players are far too-light on interaction - maybe it’s time to change that trend?
April 8, 2024 9:33 p.m.