Will Triskaidekaphile Become a New EDH Staple?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Aug. 20, 2021, 6:01 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
The new card Triskaidekaphile from Innistrad: Midnight Hunt is very awesome, and I predict that it will be very popular when the set is released, as it provides three excellent abilities for only two mana, and I cannot help but wonder if that is simply too much for such a low cost. However, I do not think that that card shall be banned, because it is good, but not overpowered, at least not in my mind.
Therefore, I wonder if it shall become a new staple of the EDH format, because each of its abilities is potentially very useful for it. Research has shown that having no maximum hand size, despite not appearing to be an ability that is particularly valuable, is actually very much so, as seen by Reliquary Tower and Thought Vessel being among the most popular lands and artifacts for this format. Both mana sinks and methods for drawing cards are popular in any format, so a card that provides a mana sink that draws cards should see no shortage of play. Finally, while alternate win conditions are usually a niche in any format, the alternate win condition provided by this creature is very easy to achieve, almost too easy, in my mind, which should again make it popular. Even if Triskaidekaphile does not become a new staple in EDH, it certainly has rendered Azure Mage obsolete, which itself rendered Treasure Trove obsolete.
What does everyone else say about this? Will Triskaidekaphile become a new staple in EDH?
Omniscience_is_life says... #3
Definitely an interesting card, and assuredly good (but certainly not banworthy!)--I can imagine it'll see a decent amount of play, but I doubt it'll be a staple.
August 20, 2021 6:21 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #4
My understanding is most alt wincons fail because the table sees them from a mile away and stops it. If you're in a position to win via alternate means, you can probably win via normal means.
I think the only "alternate" methods that strictly see play are infect, which is essentially just combat damage but less of it, and accidentally winning via mill on occasion
August 20, 2021 6:22 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #5
Ask yourself this, is Liliana's Contract or Biovisionary a game-breaking card? No. They almost never see play.
Again, it's too easy to stop it from winning.
August 20, 2021 6:24 p.m.
TypicalTimmy My finger's not exactly on the pulse of EDH, but I hear Thassa's Oracle has been making some noise.
August 20, 2021 7:10 p.m.
Noire_Samhain says... #7
I feel most will be running it for the No hand size limit if they do run it. Or in decks that already care about the cards in hand like Atemsis, All-Seeing. It doesn't innately help win with its effect and creatures are easily removed, so I don't imagine it'll be a staple.
August 20, 2021 7:21 p.m.
RiotRunner789 says... #8
It's nice that it's a creature because the win con is easily manipulated by drawing at instant speed the end step before your turn.
When I first saw this I thought it was an enchantment which makes its removal so much more painful. I'd say if it was an enchantment it would become a staple but I doubt it will get there as printed.
August 20, 2021 7:26 p.m.
griffstick says... #9
I think this will suck the fun out of casual playgroups and its not strong enough for cedh. However that doesn't mean it will not see play there. I think edh is where it will see the most play.
August 20, 2021 8:14 p.m.
Looks very strong for Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy decks, but otherwise is just another infinite mana sink, of which there are tons already.
August 20, 2021 8:48 p.m.
Its going to be a lame win condition. As griffstick said, its not strong enough for cedh, but it'll be the bane of casual tables. Really it's just lazy card design. Let's put everything needed to win on one card... it's just too easy.
August 20, 2021 9:46 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #12
griffstick what makes you say "[Triskaidekaphile] [w]ill suck the fun out of casual playgroups"?
August 20, 2021 10:34 p.m.
Personally I’m not a big fan of alternative win condition cards in EDH for the most part. Quickly comboing out the table isn’t how I want to play multiplayer magic. That said it’s very easy to interact with a small creature that needs to live until your next turn so it’s not very scary. Also I haven’t wanted to run Azure Mage in an EDH deck…I want to say ever, but maybe it happened once like 8 years ago. So no this new 13 matters card is not EDH staple material to me.
August 21, 2021 5:10 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #14
The card very much says: "oh look at me win out of nowhere by ignoring the table without playing any interaction" which, by my standards, doesn't make for very fun games. At least for Biorhythm you need to play a boardwipe and keep a board of your own to actually win out of nowhere, yet that one is banned in EDH.
Then again, it's on a creature and wins in your upkeep, like Felidar Sovereign, and I have never seen anyone win with that and call it a fun game. Creatures just die too easily in commander. The reason Thassa's Oracle does work, is because you don't even need the creature around to win the game with it.
I don't expect the card to be that much of a problem. It will see more play than Triskaidekaphobia, less than Thassa's Oracle, and that's probably exactly how it should be.
August 21, 2021 5:16 a.m.
griffstick says... #15
@Omniscience_is_life Idk man I imagine this card slotting in blue decks or decks with blue way to easy, like a Thought Vessel does. Losing to this is easier than losing to Felidar Sovereign, Revel in Riches, Hellkite Tyrant, and Mechanized Production. Manipulating you hand to meet the required condition is way easier to do then all the above conditions with the exception of felidar sovereign, because you start the game at 40 life. It is also (outside of wheels) harder to mess with someone's hand. And for icing on the cake Triskaidekaphile is only 2 mana. It's a boring win condition and its a easy win condition.
August 21, 2021 9:37 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #16
griffstick When was the last time you had exactly 13 cards in hand? Also, Thought Vessel ramps at 2 cmc outside of green, making it basically playable no matter what other abilities it has.
August 21, 2021 12:54 p.m.
GrammarYahtzee says... #17
Azure Mage does not in any way make Treasure Trove obsolete. an enchantment is much harder to remove than a 1 toughness creature.
August 21, 2021 3:44 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #19
griffstick Triskaedakophile (I'm not spell-checking that, only a guess!) will certainly be used--I'm planning on using it myself--just not to level that warrants "staple" status.
August 21, 2021 4:34 p.m.
Necrosis24 says... #21
Omniscience_is_life I think it’s the fact blue has access to so many card draw/discard effects it isn’t hard to curate your hand to 13 cards. Also the card has built in card draw so you don’t even need another card draw source just infinite mana and a couple counterspells in hand for protection. I think they way it plays is somewhat comparable to how Thrasios, Triton Hero is used.
But as you said it will see play but not staple worthy. I can see it in an Atemsis, All-Seeing deck.
August 21, 2021 4:38 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #22
Necrosis24 if you have infinite mana, there are so many ways to win!
And Thrasios is a legendary creature--much easier to build around/win with something in the CZ.
But yeah, I like Trisky in Ormos, Archive Keeper ;)
August 21, 2021 6:06 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #23
GrammarYahtzee, many players have told me that, but creatures are also easier to cheat onto the battlefield and reanimate, and they can also attack and block, which gives them far greater flexibility and versatility than what non-creature permanents have. Also, both Azure Mage and Triskaidekaphile have more lenient costs for their activated abilities than what Treasure Trove has, which may not be a major issue in a mono-blue deck, but will definitely be useful in any multicolored deck.
August 21, 2021 7:10 p.m.
davidsays1 says... #24
My comment was deleted?
- It's in blue, arguably the best color in magic
- It's in blue, getting to 13 cards is easy
- It's in blue, you can easily flash this creature in
- It's in blue, you can easily protect it
- It's in blue, flash it in before your turn, get to 13 cards, and protect it for 2 phases.
This card will become a staple in my eyes.
August 21, 2021 9:33 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #25
Triskaidekapedophile is what I will refer to this card as. Pretty sure it translates to 'fear of 13 year olds'.
August 22, 2021 3 a.m. Edited.
Gidgetimer says... #27
On the topic of the thread...
I seem to differ from most people who have stated a direct opinion on alt wincons in this thread. I'm always down for more alternate win conditions. To me the fun of Magic is the struggle to get a win condition through. The win always being from creatures being turned sideways is just boring to me. One of my favorite and most memorable wins was from Felidar Sovereign. Heck, the exchange over Felidar Sovereign would still stick out in my mind as one of the most fun points in a game even if it ended with me no longer having the Sovereign. So obviously not everyone has the same expectations of a game nor finds the same aspects enjoyable.
From my point of view Triskaidekaphile is a perfectly reasonable, if underpowered card. It provides an alternate win condition and a (expensive) way to achieve it. If it is played out "fairly", even with magical christmas land fast mana (Ancient Tomb, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, second land), it takes until your 6th turn's upkeep to win and you only have 2 additional cards to protect it for the 6 turns. Even considering mana combos or giving it flash you should still be able to see it coming a mile away, there is just less time for the actual interaction.
If there were more pay-offs for exactly curating your hand to a certain size I could see this becoming a staple of the format. As it stands more cards are always better and this is a one-off effect. It will find niche usage, but not make any waves IMO.
August 22, 2021 7:50 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #28
Last_Laugh, Gidgetimer, the name actually means "lover of the number 13," just as Triskaidekaphobia translates as "fear of the number 13."
August 22, 2021 10:34 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #29
DemonDragonJ re-read what Last_Laugh wrote. I (and I assume they) know what Triskaidekaphile means. They wrote "TriskaidekaPEDOphile" Which would add children into the greek derivation. I think that "-phobia" wasn't swapped out for "-phile" in their joke and it would either mean "lover of 13 children" or "lover of 13 year old children" both of which could be creepy if "love" were taken in a carnal way instead of familial or other platonic manners.
I swerved this by using the latin derived use of "pedo" to mean "foot". Thus I was giving the very smallest of hard times to them for not changing the suffix while also not being creepy and making a joke of my own on the differing derivations of "pedo" in the english language.
August 22, 2021 11:28 a.m.
Last_Laugh says... #30
Ok, that is creepy... my bad. I truly meant phobia but posted that late. Happy I left my intended translation at least...
August 22, 2021 11:41 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #31
Does anyone know what’s up with the hands aspect of the card? I don’t think there’s anything about hands or fingers in any of the superstitions surrounding 13... is it just because it deals with “cards in hand..?”
August 22, 2021 3:40 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #32
FormOverFunction the way I interpret the art of Triskaidekaphile is the person of interest in front of a clock, where the numbers are represented by hands. So the hands of the clock point at the hands with numbers. Clocks, of course, go just up to 12, so the mania about the number 13, and not starting over at 1, has her take apart the clock. YMMV, of course.
August 22, 2021 7:44 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #33
Gidgetimer, I did not catch that joke, so I thank you for explaining it. More accurately, I did understand the usage of "pedo" as the Greek word for "child," but I did not even think of "pedo" as beign Latin for "foot" until you explained it.
plakjekaas, that seems to be the most logical explanation, to me.
August 22, 2021 8:36 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #34
Staple? Eh. Thought Vessel is great because 2 mana rocks are good anyways, Tower is good because, well, it's a land and it costs basically nothing to add to your deck. Spellbook is garbage. This is, of course, a way to draw cards -- in a color that has "draw a card" as a primary mechanic.
But it says "win the game if [obscure and difficult condition] is met"! Yep. You're gonna have to cast a lot of cards to keep it in play, because every single EDH playable removal spell kills it. And that's gonna cost mana that you can't turn around and dump into drawing cards.
It's a gimmick. A fun gimmick, but nothing more. And that's good. These funny cards are always welcome because "why not"? As long as it's not actually good(cough cough Thoracle cough cough) then let's go at it.
RambIe says... #2
The win con is lame, however it's another dump draw with no max hand I'm sure it will see ton of simic play.
August 20, 2021 6:15 p.m.