Question for the CEDH community
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Oct. 6, 2022, 4:59 p.m. by davidsays1
I've been playing MTG for 8 years now (Khans of Tarkir), and EDH for roughly 7 (Commander 2014) Is there a reason I never see anyone use Seedtime or Savage Summoning? Seems in a competitive game Blue will always be at table, so both cards come in handy, an extra turn is amazing. An uncounterable creature is amazing. I've won many games, because of both cards so I'm just curious (savage summoning is mainly used for walking ballista when I use it.) Why neither card really sees much CEDH play.
Generally the kind of decks that want to run expensive high value creatures will have other ways of protecting them (like Allosaurus Shepherd or Veil of Summer) which generally do more work than Savage Summoning. Additionally, a large number of counterspells that get played in cEDH don't hit creatures to begin with, since people are going for low cost spells. And if you have access to counterspells, you have a way of protecting your stuff that doubles as a way of shutting down an opponent.
As for Seedtime, you need to have during your turn and have an opponent play a blue spell (presumably counter your stuff) before you can take an extra turn. I know it's only 2 mana but the fact that you can play it generally means your plan A has been disrupted and so it just untaps your stuff and draws you a card, and if you want to do that then there are much better cards to be running. Basically put, the variance is too high with too low of a floor.
October 6, 2022 6:37 p.m.
Seed time is a 20 year old card and for its price tag of $20 theres usually better options to spend the money on
October 6, 2022 8:32 p.m.
Giving this some additional thought (especially since I'm not having to type on my phone):
For Savage Summoning in a cEDH setting, the most powerful part of the card is that you can give a creature spell flash. My reasoning for this is because if you're casting a big creature in cEDH, generally you're going for big impact cards. But (usually) the kinds of decks which want to cast big creatures are either stax effects or control decks who are casting soemthing like Nezahal, Primal Tide. In the case of control decks playing Nez, it's already uncounterable and, well, you're a cotrol deck. You're already packed with counterspells so why would you dilute your general control with something that only protects your stuff and only as you play it. The window of value is so low here.
And for the other deck type that you play big creatures with being stax, your objective is to lock the game down early. Every turn you let slip is a turn that your deck is not doing its thing. So You're not going to want to wait until you can play something big and then flash it in uncounterably. By the time you're playing something big you should already have a board lock (unless you've either done something wrong or were unable to achieve a proper lock). And at that point there shouldn't be much that your opponents can do about your incoming high impact card anyway. So at this point the card basically becomes a "this only really adds value if I'm getting my arse kicked but want to stick that one big creature" which is not what you want to be wasting card slots on.
If you're after flash effects, at least Scout's Warning at worst cantrips, but Savage Summoning just isn't worth it unless you're talking very niche scenarios, which makes it not worth it.
As for Seedtime, as I mentioned the card is basically only playable if your opponent is casting blue spells (i.e. countermagic). This means that you're either A) responding to countermagic with your own countermagic, which in this case you may as well just play conditionless extra turn spells (as you're running blue), or B) your main plan has just been stopped. This means that more often than not, you don't have much else to do and so it will untap your lands, draw you a card and let you play a land (kind of like a vintage turn 1/2 Time Walk). That's not terrible, but the question is: could the card be doing more to aid your main strategy? Imagine if you had a wheel in hand instead, to refill your hand. Would this be more valuable than an extra turn?
The strength of card comes from being able to respond to something like a Cyclonic Rift (especially if you're a very permanent heavy deck) or if you can generate a lot of value in a given non-win turn (@davidsays1 I did notice that you have a Selvala, Explorer Returned deck which runs it - this is probably one of the better use cases for the card due to the value that Selvala can generate you). And sure, responding to an someone Brainstorming at your EOT is funny, but it's still pretty corner case.
But I would say that there are a myriad of blue extra turn spells, however most blue decks don't both running them unless it's part of the deck's strategy to begin will. So that should help paint a bit of a picture about why Seedtime doesn't really see play.
October 7, 2022 12:26 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #6
I have included Seedtime in my decks, and have yet to cast it for a first time. It's just too coincidental of a circumstance to have it in hand, 2 mana open, and an opponent casting a spell that is blue during my turn.
Savage Summoning I have considered for a temur Ghostly Flicker(+Dualcaster Mage) combo deck, so you can start the flicker loop, make infinite mana, probably draw your deck, and will be able to flash in a payoff creature (like one that deals damage on etb, I had the commander, Omnath, Locus of the Roil in mind) without stopping the loop. A specific solution for finishing the game while you're already drawing your deck, that's how niche the card actually is '^^
October 7, 2022 6:46 a.m.
Grubbernaut says... #7
I've seen Seedtime once in cEDH, but Allosaurus Shepherd, Destiny Spinner, and Vexing Shusher are just way better than Savage. Flashing them out almost never matters, and when it does, Emergence Zone is better.
October 7, 2022 11:52 a.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #8
I love me some Edric turns but I'm not slotting Seedtime in my deck until I get more pitch cards that do good things. Also, if there is no blue at the table which is very rare but can happen it's a blank in the 99
Yisan says... #2
I've seen savage summoning being played but I never heard of seedtime until right now and I want 3 of them!
October 6, 2022 6:28 p.m.