Necronomicon | Teysa Karlov | Primer
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 368 | 426 COMMENTS | 107253 VIEWS | IN 167 FOLDERS
Kamigawa Waiting Room | Early Game/Fodder Update —Jan. 19, 2022
Our format is getting faster and faster as more efficient and pushed cards enter the format. My priority with this deck and primer used to be grindy value and combos, but it's become more apparent that these strategies aren't fast enough to compete with newer decks. We need a lower curve, specifically focused on cheaper fodder creatures. Currently, the deck has too many redundant 4+ drops that can clog our hand in the early game. Our turns 1-3 should be focused on ramping and developing cheap creatures to power up our death triggers. That's why this update features many card cuts and new additions that look to further this strategy.
OUT
- Keeper of the Accord: I've been disappointed by Keeper ever since I included him in the first place, so I'm not sure why it's taken me so long to take him out. He's way too slow as ramp, and he's an inconsistent and slow token-maker at best. Our other 4-drops have high ceilings like producing a ton of mana quickly or recurring our creatures, so Keeper tends to sit in my hand more often than not.
- Spawning Pit: Originally, I included spawning pit as sac-outlet redundancy as well as a fodder-maker, but it's a bit too redundant. We already have tutors if we desperately need a sac outlet, and our creature-outlets are much more efficient anyway since they can sac themselves in a pinch. Spawning pit being an artifact makes things awkward, and it's fodder-making capability is too slow.
- Nether Traitor: We don't need a worse Reassembling Skeleton since we can tutor for the skeleton if we really need him. Traitor is too awkward as a fodder-piece since it costs too much to use consistently.
- Second Sunrise: At 3-mana, it's a much worse ramp spell than Brought Back, and since it has such a tight window to recur our creatures, it often sits in hand doing nothing. I'm keeping brought back as I still believe it's a strong ramp spell with utility to bring back some fodder, but sunrise isn't nearly as good, even though it does have a higher ceiling.
- Sifter of Skulls: This one might be controversial, as it's one of Teysa's most popular cards, but I don't think sifter is as necessary when we already have Pitiless Plunderer. Plunderer makes mana more efficiently than sifter since he adds colored mana and can trigger off of creature-tokens. While sifter does bring creature-fodder, it's essentially a worse Pawn of Ulamog who we can tutor for if need be as well. We just don't need redundancy in the mana department or the token-making department at an expensive 4-mana rate.
- Nightmare Shepherd: Similar to sifter, Shepherd is redundant with Luminous Broodmoth and brings up our average CMC too much. It's worse than moth since it exiles creatures, making it impossible to reanimate them in the future.
- Liliana, Dreadhorde General: As good as she is if we get her out on a board full of fodder with a sac-outlet, most of the time, she's more or less a 6-mana Dark Prophecy. Her +1 produces fodder at an excruciatingly slow rate and her -4 is fine board control but nothing crazy for a 6-mana walker. I'm replacing her with cheaper, more efficient card draw.
- Storm of Souls/Command the Dreadhorde: Recently I've been using these big reanimation cards interchangeably, but I've found both to be too redundant with Living Death which also doubles as a board wipe. If we really need our creatures back from the yard, we can always tutor Living Death to our hand. While living death does reanimate our opponents' stuff too unlike the spells in question, it's versatile as a boardwipe, costs less mana, and we're more likely to benefit from mass reanimation on our turn than our opponents.
IN
- Carrier Thrall: At 2-mana, he does a good impression of our 1-drop fodder like Doomed Traveler with added utility. I've experimented with him in the past and was decently impressed, but I think with the direction the deck and overall EDH meta is going in, fast creatures like carrier thrall will be king.
- Ministrant of Obligation: Like carrier thrall, ministrant has been in and out of the deck a few times, but this is likely a permanent inclusion. For one creature, he produces 5 total creatures for fodder off Teysa. While cards like Hallowed Spiritkeeper could technically produce more, they rely on pre-existing conditions to do so. Ministrant is self-sufficient, meaning he can produce fodder when we have an empty board, empty graveyard, and 3 fodder for one creature is still a good rate when we don't have Teysa out.
- Esper Sentinel: After seeing esper sentinel played extensively in my meta, I've been impressed with how good an impression he does of Mystic Remora while staying a creature. It's not uncommon we draw 4+ cards if we play him on an early turn, and turns into fodder later for Skullclamp or our other cards.
- Shambling Ghast: While its not the most impactful 1-drop, creating two treasures with Teysa is quite strong when we only paid 1 mana for it. It also has the utility of killing an enemy creature like in a pinch. Recently, I've been greatly valuing 1 and 2-drops, and Shambling Ghast is definitely one of the better ones.
- Sultai Emissary: For a 2-drop, manifesting is quite strong. After doing some testing with Undead Augur and Novice Occultist as I wanted more early card draw, I found both cards underwhelming. Waiting until they die to draw the cards takes too long, especially for only 1 card, but we prefer them to be death triggers because of Teysa. Sultai emissary is a great compromise since instead of fully drawing cards, he manifests. While manifesting generally isn't better than drawing cards, it's better on an early death trigger in an aristocrats strategy. Often, we'd rather have a creature than draw a land, so emissary does a much better job than occultist or augur for acting as fodder. We can also turn up the manifests as creatures for more death triggers, and manifests don't count as tokens, so they trigger cards like Midnight Reaper.
- Plumb the Forbidden: This does a great job at fueling our hand early and giving the option of a one-time sac outlet. It's no engine, but it supplements our permanent-based card draw well. In a pinch, it can even be cycled for a card.
- Village Rites & Deadly Dispute: These act as 2nd and 3rd copies of plumb, upping our early card draw and sacrifice redundancy. Not sure if sacrifice utility is more worth it than the consistency of Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood, so I'll continue to monitor these cards' performance, but for now, the utility seems valuable.
Swaps
- Ranger-Captain of Eos instead of Ranger of Eos: Following the theme of lowering our curve, Ranger-Captain has more advantages than his counterpart. Tutoring a 1-drop is still great for guaranteeing a sac outlet, more fodder, or card draw with our new friend Esper Sentinel! However, at 4-mana, ranger is slightly slower than ranger-captain, and while he can tutor two 1-drops instead of one, one is all we need most of the time. At 4-mana, he comes into conflict with Teysa and our other bombs like Luminous Broodmoth or Elenda, the Dusk Rose. Ranger-captain also has added utility by sacrificing himself to Silence an opponent, or just sacrificing himself to sacrifice himself can be very useful for us.
- Brightclimb Pathway Flip + Exotic Orchard + Malakir Rebirth Flip instead of 3x Plains: With Keeper of the Accord out of the deck, we don't rely on a large amount of basic plains anymore, so we can afford to play more color fixing and utility. Even though we're a two-color deck with a great manabase already, fixing is still important for us so we can land our triple or double pip permanents on turn 3. And while being half-tapland turned me off before, malakir rebirth might just be worth it as a cheap and versatile recursion tool. I still need more time to experiment with it, so my opinion could 180 in a few months, but for now, I quite enjoy bringing back Elenda, the Dusk Rose just to make her even bigger off her own tokens.
These updates are meant to increase early our early consistency and have fewer games with slow, expensive hands. Of course, I'm not saying any cards are objectively better or worse. Right now, my priority is to adjust the deck for a faster format with lots of combo and aggro, and it should make things easier against stax if that's in your meta too. Against grindy metas with more control, slower, more expensive cards aren't as punished, so these changes aren't as important there. While you may find this list a great template, always adjust for your preferences and meta. I'll be sure to release another update when Kamigawa spoilers end, so stay tuned for that. For now, you can ask me any questions about the changes here or some new leaks or spoilers as they come out. I answer every comment, though sometimes it can take a while.
Foster_I_Am Yeah I kinda dropped the ball on that one. The set released around when I had finals, so I had no time. I'll do a writeup today covering the new(ish) cards.
December 21, 2021 9:20 p.m.
Xxtormundxx says... #4
What do you think about Secure The Wastes and Increasing Devotion? When I play Teysa, sometimes I found it helpful to create a bunch of sac fodder at once rather than one each turn (like Ophiomancer or Bitterblossom).
December 27, 2021 3:41 a.m.
Xxtormundxx Secure the Wastes and Increasing Devotion are usually too much mana. Cards like Doomed Traveler give us fodder for mana at a 2-1 rate, or 3-1 with Teysa out. Having to tap out just to play some fodder on turn 4 or 5 is tough when its not protected against boardwipes. Making fodder from creatures with Pawn of Ulamog or Elenda, the Dusk Rose tends to be more mana efficient than paying a bunch of mana for upfront tokens. Teysa also doesn't double them. They're definitely not that bad if you want to play them, I just prefer cheaper cards. If you want more fodder for 1 card, try Ministrant of Obligation.
December 29, 2021 6:55 a.m.
Vintrastorm says... #6
How about Faiths reward instead of second sunrise?
Con: 1 more mana.
Pro: Not double white. Brings back only your stuff, not the opponent's. Brings back more card types (not that relevant?)
January 3, 2022 11:03 a.m.
Vintrastorm The main reason we're not running Faith's Reward is because its 4 mana. Being 1 more mana makes it a lot worse as ramp, and the pros you mentioned aren't needed. Double-white mana is easier than coming a turn later, and bringing back opponents' stuff is only bad after a boardwipe or if an opponent has a sac-outlet. We'd never play Second Sunrise if it hurts us more than helps us, and even if its bringing back some of our opponents' stuff, bringing back a full board of our creatures will likely win us the game that turn.
However, I'm even skeptical of Second Sunrise costing 3-mana, which makes it quite bad as early ramp. I'm keeping it in the deck for now because its efficient board recursion with a sac-outlet, but it might be too situational. It's on my watchlist for cards I might replace with more fodder/cheap card draw in the near future, but if sunrise ends up not good enough for the deck, neither is faith's reward.
January 3, 2022 2 p.m.
MilkBreath56 says... #8
Hi Masterful,
Long-time follower, sometimes commenter.
I've been testing making my Teysa list more and less like yours. Some edits have been solid, others just haven't vibed with. What's your typical pod look like? What's the power-level (however you define it)? What's the meta?
Mine has been getting higher powered and faster, aggro and combo decks; looking through the extensive Maybeboard has been really helpful to guide my tuning.
Cheers to my fellow Teysa player, and thanks for the updates!
January 14, 2022 9:38 p.m.
MilkBreath56 I play with a pretty consistent playgroup of 3-5 other people. We play at what I'd consider mid/high power level with games often ending around turn 6 or 8. Generally we won't play super fast or consistent infinite combos or stax, and control decks are quite uncommon. Like your meta, mine has been getting a lot faster and more aggressive as time goes on. To further put it into perspective, Mana Crypt, Gaea's Cradle, and Jeweled Lotus are often each seen once per game. Sometimes we'll play at 30 life to incentivize aggro and punish life-usage, and that can make Teysa harder to play, but she's still a powerhouse in my meta. Since I probably have 100 games on Teysa alone, I know her a lot better than any of my playgroup knows their decks, so she's a bit infamous. They've learned by now not to let me untap with a board full of fodder.
Glad the maybeboard is helpful as I've been wondering lately whether its good or if it clogs the page too much. I've been unable to keep up with the sheer amount of playable aristocrats cards in this format, so it's very outdated. If you're looking for more playable aristocrats cards, I recommend searching "whenever creature dies", "when ~ dies", "sacrifice", etc. on scryfall. It's a great resource for finding under-the-radar cards you wouldn't see on edhrec. Learning and utilizing scryfall's advanced search will get you very far in deckbuilding.
Always happy to have another Orzhov aristocrat. Cheers!
January 15, 2022 2:44 a.m.
MilkBreath56 says... #10
Thanks Masterful, that really helps me evaluate some of the recommendations.
When I first read through your list, I felt like there were too many high CMC cards, and that I wouldn't be able to get off the ground fast enough, compared to say a Lathril or Magda. (One of the guys in our pod can win on turn 2 or 3 with a perfect draw in Magda.) I personally don't care for the infinite combos or cEDH power level either; partially because it just doesn't feel "fun" and partially because I love Teysa so much and she doesn't really scale up to that power level the same way Urza, Dinah, Magda, and other cEDH staples do. We just need so many combo pieces, it's really not the same.
I love the deck because it's somewhat of a puzzle-box. How do you balance: guys who care about creatures dying, guys who we want to die, and ways to make creatures die. It's complex to balance and satisfying when it works; more-so to balance it at a power level appropriate to the pod. Going infinite with Reassembling Skeleton is OK in high power, but might not be if you're playing into a precon with $20 of upgrades. I feel like Tutors are another lever to help tune the power level as well. (I replace with draw effects like Sign in Blood to lower the power level.)
Sorry for the rambling... I'll end with one more question, based on your experience with the list: how often do you find yourself running out of/not drawing in to non-token creatures to reliably sac? This has been my most frequent challenge I'm trying to tune for. I had a game recently in which I had Bolas's, two drainers, and an Altar, but no gas for the engine.
Thanks again for your work- I owe you a pint, next time you're down to the pub!
January 15, 2022 10:51 a.m.
MilkBreath56 I've been experiencing a similar problem in that the deck has too many high CMC cards that can clog our hand. Now that the format is speeding up, we can't afford to play as many big creatures with redundant effects. For example, Luminous Broodmoth and Nightmare Shepherd are probably not both needed, and neither are both Pitiless Plunderer and Sifter of Skulls. I used to prioritize the infinite combo a lot more back when the format was slower, but now, cheap fodder and card draw are king. The combo should still be accessible with our many tutors even though we'd have less redundancy. I'm working on an update to overall lower the curve of the deck, introduce more cheap fodder and card draw, and cut down on redundant 4+ CMC cards.
Despite the potential of lowering the curve, Teysa will never be as fast as the likes of Lathril, Blade of the Elves who can rely on tons of cheap mana dorks, or Magda, Brazen Outlaw who generates fast treasure from the command zone. Teysa's advantage is that she's a lot more resilient. Aristocrat boards will get a ton of value even if they're destroyed and can sometimes be brought back while elves or Magda just lose everything to a wipe. And if your Magda player is winning too consistently on early turns, their deck might be too strong for your meta.
The balance of death triggers to fodder to sacrifice is definitely a tough one. Thankfully many cards do multiple jobs. I'm glad you've been able to adjust the power level using the tutors. Another easy way to cut power would be cutting cards like Necropotence or Bolas's Citadel or fast ramp like Chrome Mox or Mana Crypt. Even cutting Skullclamp reduces power by a ton. Cards like Sign in Blood (or Marble Diamond/Charcoal Diamond for the ramp) are great replacements. If you ever need to increase power, stax cards like Opposition Agent and Dauthi Voidwalker could do a lot, but it's at the cost of making the deck more oppressive. If you ever find yourself up against precons, this list would need a lot of down-tuning, and some easy downgrades might be to remove Reassembling Skeleton, take out all the ramp, take out all the control cards, etc.
To answer your question, I agree with you that running out of fodder is probably this deck's #1 problem. It's mostly the same as our high CMC problem. We don't have enough cheap fodder, and too many of our creatures are 4+ mana. The update I'm working on should hopefully solve some of those problems. If you want to do some tuning yourself, I recommend trying different 1-2 drop creatures with useful death triggers, especially ones that create tokens.
Glad you're enjoying the deck and cheers again!
January 17, 2022 4:33 a.m.
Housegheist says... #12
Ever thought about Oketra's Monument or Bontu's Monument?
January 17, 2022 9:03 a.m.
Housegheist Oketra's Monument and Bontu's Monument provide semi-useful value on top of a not-very-consistent cost-reducer. Oketra's only reduces 9 of our creatures' mana costs, as we only have ~15 white creatures, and quite a few of them have only colored mana in their mana costs. That means it's mostly just a token-maker when we cast creatures, which isn't a super efficient way of making fodder. I much prefer fodder that's self-sufficient and can build us a board from nothing. Bontu's reduces the cost of more creatures, but it's non-death trigger drain isn't super useful since we're not looking to cast a ton of creatures. We'd much rather have our creatures die and bring them back.
Consistent ramp that can always tap for mana tends to be better for our strategy, especially since we can play it earlier than turn 3. Furthermore, cards like Knight of the White Orchid and Loyal Warhound provide valuable self-sufficient fodder in addition to mostly consistent ramp.
Foster_I_Am says... #1
Hey Masterful - Hope all is well! Just wanted to check in here to see if you had any updated inclusions or exclusions from Innistrad?
Thanks :) -Foster
December 21, 2021 12:02 p.m.