Dress Down interaction
Asked by likasumbody 2 years ago
Hi,
If I cast Glinting Creeper for its converge cost of 5 different mana colours and my opponent casts Dress Down in response - does my creature enter the battlefield as a 0/0? Or a 10/10?
Thanks.
likasumbody says... #2
Thanks Polaris. Can anyone else validate if that is correct? I'm being told by others that the ETB trigger is voided by Dress Down's ability.
August 31, 2021 2:04 p.m.
If it were an ETB trigger, that would indeed be true. However, this is "this enters the battlefield with counters," not "when this enters the battlefield, put counters on it."
By Magic rules, if it were a triggered ability, it would enter the battlefield as a 0/0, its ability would trigger to put counters on it, and then it would die from being a 0/0 before the trigger resolved. The ability here is part of the spell, not an enters-the-battlefield trigger.
The same applies to creatures like Hydras and Clones (a Clone will typically enter the battlefield as a copy of another creature; though it loses all abilities to Dress Down when it enters, it will still be a copy of that creature [currently with no abilities], not itself).
For a counterexample, look at Leveler, which has a significant drawback you can completely negate with Dress Down.
August 31, 2021 2:38 p.m.
Glinting Creeper will enter as a 0/0 as Dress Down does remove it's ability. Even though we're looking at it entering the battlefield, so it's not quite a creature yet, in order to determine what replacement effects apply, we look at how it would exist on the battlefield. As it will exist as a creature, it won't have an ability so we can't apply it's replacement effect.
614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it’s on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent.
August 31, 2021 6:21 p.m.
likasumbody says... #5
Thanks for the feedback guys... Although I'm still not sure what the correct answer is lol. Dress down is such a complicated card.
August 31, 2021 7:52 p.m.
Dress Down itself isn't a complicated card. It's a 2 mana instant speed card that replaces itself and shuts off creature abilities for the rest of the turn.
The things it's shutting off are what get complicated.
August 31, 2021 8:05 p.m.
Fortunately it's not a new ability, and Humility has been around for a while. Unfortunately the rule I referenced was changed when Ixalan was released, so you can find plenty of forums saying creatures will enter with the counters and plenty saying they won't, and both sides were right when they said it. To this end, I'd refer you to the Wizard's page that discussed this rules change: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/ixalan-comprehensive-rules-changes-2017-09-28
The relevant part being: "So this rule's changing. Now, to determine what replacement effects will apply to a permanent entering the battlefield, you look at continuous effects that modify that permanent's characteristics coming from the permanent itself along with those that already exist and will affect that permanent. Dimir Aqueduct enters the battlefield untapped under Blood Moon. Humility causes creatures with modular to enter without their +1/+1 counters. Metallic Mimic can distribute +1/+1 counters happily to your army of Ferrets under Arcane Adaptation."
Polaris says... #1
Glinting Creeper's ability happens as it enters the battlefield. Before it resolves, it's not a creature (it's a creature spell) so Dress Down won't apply yet. When it's in play, Dress Down will make it lose all abilities, but the +1/+1 counters will already be on it. It will be a 0/0 with no abilities and ten +1/+1 counters making it a 10/10.
August 31, 2021 11:59 a.m.