You can but it would be at the cost of other card which would be useful like other pieces of interaction. Sticking to one might be best imo. Either way i hope Sigi gets better, so i can see what else he has planned for muldrotha. Also will probably answer your question far better than I can.

Hey bro, could you please gave us any idea about an 1v1 mol list? Protean hulk just go unbanned _

I don't play 1v1, so you'll have to ask someone else.

Crying on the floor. But ok!Thank you so much anw.

Just wondering what was the reason for removing stifle for Cephalid Colosseum? I was under the impression that being able to stop triggered abilities would be more useful than the cephalid threshold ability. Am I missing some combo where you manage to recur the threshold ability and manual mill that way?

I'm guessing all will be explained once the new set officially comes out...

Also hope you're feeling better Sigi:)

I am thinking in terms of Muldrotha, LED, Lab man and then Cephalid Coliseum for the draw effect.

This is my humble opinion...probably Sigi is in a better place to comment though.

Step 1:

Get Muldrotha, the Gravetide in play, you can do this by just casting her with a Grand Abolisher the turn before that or Dread Return her instead of the angel we were used to reanimating after a Hermit Druid activation...

Step 2:

You cast Lion's Eye Diamond and crack it for

Step 3:

You cast Phantasmal Image from the grave (after hermit) cloning Muldrotha, the Gravetide, and letting the original Muldrotha, the Gravetide die (adding a new reset on castable stuff in your graveyard...)

Step 4:

You cast Lion's Eye Diamond again and crack it for

Step 5:

Animate Dead/Necromancy/Dance of the Dead/Loyal Retainers/ ETC... (any 3mana or less reanimation spell that doesn't cost you life) on the original letting our clone die

Step 6:

Repeat 1-5 for infinite &

Step 7:

Now you can start to crack Lion's Eye Diamond for other colors on steps 2 or 4(if your reanimation spell was cmc2), you simply filter half of what we made into the other colors (billions of & mana anyway)

Step 8:

With our , , , we can now use her to bring back other permanents and win of lab man in a similar way as before but

You can now cast any non-creatures off the original

you can now cast any non-enchantments off the clone

This means we can get any of the previous win cons back and play any permanent in our graveyard.

But I feel like I am missing something :s, I mean you can't get to any instants and sorceries with MUL right unless you EWIT once? and if you really needed the protection to get grand abolisher I feel like you will be stopped before that happens anyway no?

@lynden I am guessing Cephalid Coliseum is used as another out like cabal therapy to put multiple things in the graveyard that don't belong in your hand and MUL allows you to play it if you preserved your land drop, also it just wins with labman and an empty library. It is never a dead slot really as it can draw you three and a land drop can't be responded too no?

Kiyomeii Thanks for posting the explanation for one of the Muldrotha lines on here, I should have them ready soon. Cephalid Coliseum is used in another Muldrotha line, where you need an extra mana and a land drop available. You go Dread Return on Muldrotha, play Coliseum from the yard as your land, cast LED and crack it for UUU, cast Lab Maniac from the yard, then activate Coliseum to draw for the win.

Why is Muldrotha still illegal? Isn't the set out already?

So After excessive testing, I have found some Achilles' heels in the MulDruid lines that I'd like to find a solution or answer to...

First and foremost these lines are so easy interruptible because Phantasmal Image dies when it gets targeted and Necromancy can be removed very easy in a similar sense. I have felt really open when using this so obviously tried to find things to close the game with protection.

When you don't have access to Silence , Autumn's Veil or Grand Abolisher when needed...

So with things in mind that our opponents are holding onto something that targets Phantasmal Image, Destroys Necromancy or a counterspell waiting for its right moment which for some reason wasn't used on dread return (like drawn from study or remora for example)...

1: So i had a game where I used Phantasmal Image on an opponents Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip (which has some really weird rules to his flip but didn't use it yet)... And was able to use MULDruid(Hermit) next turn... The land drop I went for with MUL was Cavern of Souls and called Humans,

2: then I used caverns + 1 to get back Grand Abolisher shutting down any interaction, After that recast LED which I then sacced for (because I can't cast creatures anymore since I used it on Grand abolisher) for Necromancy onto Phantasmal Image letting the original die and resetting every castable permanent type on MUL..

3: Then Used LED for Labman and got stuck... (Jace from phantasmal got sacced as part of the dread return cost because I really needed phantasmal to get a second iteration of Mul on the field which allowed me to recast labman)...

Now i have sat down with some of the people i playtest with and didn't really find a solution inside the deck but a suggestion to play Animate Dead or Dance of the Dead to break out of this complication and recast these in this specific situation on the original letting Phantasmal Image and Necromancy die and resetting with full protection.

But the Question that remained "if all of that is worth it over angel?" or are there things I am missing because without those specific lines and not having access to protection an abrupt decay on lab man loses you the game right?

Phantasmal Image and Necromancy rulings by a judge so yes it works : [The Image's ability only works as long as it's on the battlefield (and only if it's a copy of something). While Necromancy targets with its trigger, it doesn't matter for the Image, since it's being targeted in the graveyard, not while it's on the battlefield!!!]

I've found you can also run Think Twice or Deep Analysis in here for there flashback cost in the line with protection depending on your mana though! you could drop Flash of Insight or something for that spot I never really liked the card in any situation anyway.

Hi Sigi, I want to ask you, what do you think of using Manglehorn instead of Reclamation sage? BR

Thank you Sigi for updating the win conditions. Watching you play this deck and the deck tech has helped me to build this deck.

Why Necromancy over Animate Dead, what conditions would the flash matter? GY hate against opponents?

This looks like a blast to play, I think I am going to take my Breya apart for it. Many similar wincons, with the added green mana ramp package.

Necromancy kills your own Hulk, that's the important part.

Experimenting with the new lines. liking it so far. although, i feel that the "vulnerability" that others are suggesting in the comments above hasnt't changed much from the old angel of glory's rise combo line. if an opponent, is going to interact with your combo turn, it's usually one of 2 points for me. 1. in response to the narcomoeba trigger with an instant draw effect to try to kill me on the spot. 2. in response to dread return either with a counter, or an exile effect on either muldrotha, lab man, etc. lion's eye discarding my hand does make me a bit uneasy, but we still have flash of insight/memory's journey to fall back on if we get hosed. i feel this line needs to be explained in the primer. one card i truly feel needs the axe in the list is gitaxian probe. so bad here. it's used in a lot of other competitive decks for the following reasons: slot filler in combo decks that don't need anything else in the slot, to view an opponent's hand before a combo (i.e. with cabal therapy at the ready in legacy storm), as a free cantrip with doomsday or storm combos. we need it for none of those reasons. it can be used to see what interaction an opponent has before we activate hermit druid but, i'd rather just have an answer to interaction in that slot. knowing what they have does me no good if i can't answer it and if they got it they got it. i swapped it for mana drain. anyway, enough of my rant. keep up the good work, sigi and thanks for the updates! (ps. i'd love to see a new season of lab maniacs in the works.) take care.

@xEth0sx There is a way to get protection after MUL is on the field... Before that, you are pretty open and don't think it can be any other way because that will mess with the speed this deck runs at... You'll need some extra white mana other than cavern of souls...

Use Mul to return a land; Cavern of Souls (Call humans) and use it to get Grand Abolisher back. and from this point on you should be fine except for faerie macab...

Use led for triple BBB and cast Necromancy or Animate Dead on Phantasmal Image(in the grave) cloning MUL when it enters.

Let the original die and recast led of our new one, crack it for BBB again and cast Animate Dead or Necromancy (one which you didn't use yet) on MUL in the Yard letting The image and necromancy both die...

This will reset the entire loop Again and break you free... from here on you can continue with the normal win with protection...

(You could cut the Probe for Animate dead in this case because you can not do this without it... you'll get stuck with a necromancy on a phantasmal image and an LED on the field again without anything to recur MUL with. you could also get lab man back and use a flashback draw which the deck also doesn't run but that's an enormous hoop to jump through and more mana...)

I've covered a bit of these finds on comments above, and on my copy-deck of Sigi the amazing HULK.

Is it just me or are all the main explanation portions in the win conditions section just missing?

Oh damn, you're right. Why this. I'll look into fixing it tomorrow.

Besides angel’s grace and value plays, is there a reason the deck needs Ad Nauseum? It’s been disappointing in goldfishes and I’m considering heresy and filling the two slots with something else. I imagine getting stuck without a way to win outside the graveyard, but couldn’t think of anything else. Hoping this thread can talk some sense into me.

@PlatosCave117

Goldfishes are aimed to spam hulk or hermit (Plan A) asap and don't take in consideration interaction, where at some point in any 4-man-pod people will be able to stop these (even turn 1 or 2) in some way and I always felt like the Ad Nauseam + Angel's Grace has been a great backup win for the late game and not to hard to cast with all the ramp we have mid-game either.

I guess you could play around with other infinite combo's as well like dramatic-scepter or grim-artifact if you are on a more Staxy meta?

@Kiyomei, Thanks, those are not bad alternatives. My playgroup was telling me it’s basically a risk, and what I gain in potential consistency I may lose in overall resilience.

A bit of a silly question, but after you mill your entire deck and play MUL for infinite mana how do yu then draw cards with Thrasios? Is there a way of putting those cards back into your library, or do you just play the combo from graveyard with MUL although MUL can only play permanents so I'm not sure what to do?